I can't link at the moment but that clip of Parkes that's posted here and there might be the ugliest assault I've ever seen on a soccer field.
What is even going through his mind at that moment? Ouimette has already been shown the red. He's walking away. Parkes keeps going after him, jawing. What the hell?
Obviously Pittsburgh is our USL affiliate for 2017 as well. Hollingsworth started and got an assist on Pitt's second goal in a 3-3 draw with NYRB2. Swanson replaced him in the second half.
Wasn't Hollingsworth converted to a defender and spent all his time as an outside back last season? Now he's back in an attacking role? That seems well thought out.
Well he was a mid and we put him at outsideback because he had no chance to crack any line up as a outside winger. So I assume Pittsburgh put him where it best helps them to put him where he is better suited. I think he will devolp as a player regardless. While not getting minutes at outsideback where he may end up if he is with us long term is not that big of a deal. If he blossoms at outside winger I'm sure GB would be just as happy. I totally get your point
I think one of the bigger questions when you have something like this is where is this decision coming from. If he played as a defender last year, was that Pittsburgh's decision or our Sporting Director. If he switches to an attacking role this season. is that Pittsburgh's decision or our Sporting Director? It's these sort of nebulous things that make the difference between having an affiliate, and investing in a true Crew B team.
I agree with this in theory, but we're talking about (no offense intended) Marshall Hollingsworth here. He's 23, and can't even make the bench for us. USL is probably his level, no shame in that. He's a bit of a tweener it seems anyway. Didn't he play as a striker or winger in college? And then as a midfielder or fullback now for Pitt? He's just one of those classic old school American soccer players. Good athlete and versatile, but no definable position though. I doubt we'll see Swanson or Obinwa lining up in central defense or up top, they have much more defined skills and positions. I see this as more of a Hollingsworth issue than a sporting director or affiliate issue.
He played as a striker and central midfielder at the D3 NCAA level. He's too small and not fast enough to be a professional striker. He isn't good enough to be a professional center mid. But he is a smart player with some skill, so if he is ever going to contribute at an MLS level, it'll be as a reserve outside back or outside mid. He is good enough going forward to be a winger and smart enough to play outside back. I don't think Pittsburgh is going to play any of our guys out of position and hamper their development. And if I'm worried about anyone with Pittsburgh, it's not Hollingsworth, who seems to have a regular place with the team. It's Obinwa and Swanson, who can't find many minutes.
He did, and looked fantastic, scoring a goal, I believe he set up one and really could've scored at least one more. Look, I love ya hang but sometimes you're just trying too hard to shoehorn things into your narrative. Hollingsworth here is a case in point. As everyone knows, converting wide attackers to fullback is a way to either prolong a career (think Beasley and maybe tRR) or to launch one (tons of examples here, off the top of my head, Hollingshead, Ashe, Hairston). Hairston, in particular, is an interesting case because he showed nothing in his first year as a player without a position (IIRC he was a CM at Louisville), got looks at RB in his second and did well enough to stick around, then got pushed back up to RW in his third and now his career is taking off. I just think there is no there there in questioning the partnership for player development by looking at Hollingsworth. A coach can look at a younger player and see tools, and correctly make the assessment that "what worked for you before won't work for you now, so you're going to have add strings to your bow if you want to stick." There is a chronic shortage of left backs, so if Hollingsworth can demonstrate the ability to operate as a wingback, a fullback, and maybe a defensive winger, then good for him, good for Pittsburgh and hopefully good for us. Even if he never really figures for us, that's how development is supposed to work.
Someone get Hang another cup O'Joe. He clearly needs it. Playing outside back and wing are not much different from a skill perspective in the modern game and especially in the system GGG likes to play. As mentioned above, many guys move between the two. It is also very common for players to "move back" the field as the move up levels in soccer. I like what Pittsburgh did with Hollingsworth last year. My son plays primarily in a central midfield role for his club, but is being looked at to possibly play outside back in college. When he was younger, he was a forward and attacking mid. Another example that comes to mind is Geoff Cameron. Played D-mid forever, but also drops back now to play CB. The higher the level, the higher the demand for overall skills all over the field. You can't just be a big lug anymore and play CB. Also wasn't Finley a forward in college? Definitely in a bitchy mood today Hang. I guess a couple of wins (and sitting atop the table) by the first team has you looking for other places to stick your fork.
Thanks man. I love you too. The main point here isn't exactly Hollingsworth, it's the potential for conflicting interests when you have a "relationship" like the Crew and Pittsburgh's. Nobody really knows who is calling the shots, and whether the presumed development is actually to the benefit of the Columbus. To further that point @mmradio13 made the point of Obinwa and Swanson completely unable to find minutes with the team. Well, last game Swanson actually came on after Hollingsworth got injured. If to his point, that Holingsworth is very unlikely to contribute at the MLS level anywhere else other than as a reverse outside back, or outside mid, why is he ahead of the pecking order of Swanson? Well, part of the reason is that Pittsburgh is thinking about Pittsburgh first, foremost, and probably only. Sure they appreciate having these gifts come down from the Crew. But there is little alignment with how Pittsburgh views the development of their club and how Columbus views ours. And that sort of set up leads to many tweener guys who could be great in USL/NASL type setups getting major minutes, whereas players like Speas and Obinwa see their development thwarted. This is how you wind up with 24-25 year old journeymen rookies as opposed to a guy like Tyler Adams stepping into the Red Bulls lineup at age 18 and being one of the 2-3 best players on the field. It's about being proactive with our youth setup, not looking for a fork to stick anywhere.
Hang - who says the Hounds and Crew aren't completely aligned with where players are going to be played. Did someone form within either organization tell you that? Pretty certain, I heard Brandt say he talks to Berhalter weekly. Also are you certain Swanson is a better player than Hollingsworth (or other hounds players) and deserves more playing time? When did you observe them all to conclude such? Maybe, just Maybe Swanson isn't good enough to crack a USL line up. Are you suggesting that shouldn't matter and they should just play him in the holy name of Development? C'mon man you are needling for the sake of needling.
A cordial relationship is very nice. That's great. Brandt also has his job to look out for first and foremost and reports to his boss and his owners. This isn't a revolutionary concept. This is something more or less accepted across the board. This is why teams have B teams. This is why teams that don't have B teams want B teams. I'm not sure Swanson is better. I do know he isn't getting time. I do know teams that invest in B teams are more likely to take the chances and youth players and find out sooner With this sarcasm, you are actually EXACTLY proving my point. Pittsburgh is under no obligation now or ever to play Swanson for development. This could be due to conflicts with the coach. This could be due to the coach's self interest. The coach could think that 28 year old Crew reject Rich Balchan is better suited to help the Riverhounds win. This is exactly why these sort of arrangements are problematic and why having a B team is so important to most clubs, and why clubs that don't have a B team want a B team. It makes more sense to have control over how to develop your assets. Again, this is not by any means a revolutionary idea. This is shared by many clubs with different philosophies. Shared by lovers and haters. Why? Because, it's common sense.
So to sum up your point.... An affiliation is useless and the only way to develop youth is if you have you're own B team. Got it. By the way I would love Crew to have their own B team, but I have not problem with the Pittsburgh relationship as it is.
Oh and you're basing your whole assessment of the Pittsburgh situation on one game's worth of playing time allocation. I seem to recall last year (when healthy) our guys saw the field quite often.
Never said useless. That's an interesting way to read the last paragraph above. An affiliate is definitely useful to send younger players who exceed your roster spots. It might even be useful to send a Dilly Duka to post surgery to regain match fitness. However, it is preferred (it sounds like even by you!) to have an actual B team where you have full control over your own assets, bring them up in the senior squad's system of play, and even to use one of Tony and Gregg's buzzwords, the "culture" of the club. This is preferred whether the team has won 2 in a row, lost 14 in a row, or just won MLS Cup. It's a big picture item that looks beyond the immediate results and is proactive about the future.
Let's take a closer look at the Red Bulls II example. I'm sure you'll have noticed Aaron Long slotting in comfortably to a starting CB role this year. Who? Well, for those who don't yet, a 24- year-old journeyman rookie essentially, who had looks with Seattle and Portland before ending up in Harrison last season. He proved he was too good for USL last year, winning defender of the year and so on and spent the latter couple of months with Red Bulls first team last season. Orlando seem to have a similar path laid out for Zach Carroll this year if all goes according to plan. LA have already done this with Steres and Romney. Seattle seem hopeful of doing it with Alfaro. (Note the CB trend here, too, btw). We can cast envious glances at RBNY, FCD, RSL, Los Dos, and so on, and their seeming emphasis blooding youth, but one thing these clubs (minus FCD) are also doing is targeting these so-called journeymen rookies because all they might really need to take the next step is some first-team action before being given a shot. This is going to be a well-worn path in the next few seasons, and for us, represents the best chance to bridge the gap between now and getting the structure of our own USL team in place, if/when it ever happens.
There is a fundamental difference in these two scenarios: Ali Curtis in the role of Sporting Director identifying Long (or Tyler Adams or Sean Davis), acquiring Long and having him play 22 games at Red Bulls 2 last season who's primary goal is identifying and developing players for New York Red Bulls. Gregg Berhalter in the role of Sporting Director identifying a player and sending them to Pittsburgh where the primary goal is for Pittsburgh to finish as high up the table as possible. Steres played 49 games with LA Galaxy II Romney has played 23 games with Galaxy II Alfaro has already played 20 games with Sounders 2 So these examples that you are speaking of actually also already have B teams. These teams know they can bring these players in and develop them within their own teams, and within their own systems. If anything, it's another argument as to why having a B team is even more preferable than a USL affiliate. You have control over that player in the last few years for him to really break through and develop to MLS level talent, as opposed to handing it over to someone else. Again, keep as much control of your assets as possible.