You're either shifting the argument, or we are arguing different things. Consistency doesn't mean he did those tricks every game in a season. It's not like consistency in the definition of scoring goals. It's about success rate when you attempt those skills.
@carlito86 This is a really good point by sexybeast. Even though I chose ronaldinho I must admit that this point could well turn my decision. HOWEVER, as 11/12 is arguably CR7s best season it leaves many people asking why was he so quiet against a tough compact Bayer Munich in BOTH legs??!!! Not that CR7 hasn't scored 5 goals against a tough Bayern side over 2 legs as in 17/18 but how did he get those goals???? 13/14 against Bayern look how quiet he was in BOTH legs and look how his goals came from! 18/19, completely invisible against a tough Bayern team with no goals or influence in the match. That's multiple times against a tough team where he had no standout game. I bring this up because German teams are more athletic and physical against German teams and are more compact than the defenses he normally played against in the EPL. We could also sit here and list several tough games where CR7 has come out on top. But I tend to go with Ronaldinho as so many others because Ronaldinho could score, create a spectacular goal against a tough team when thr moments came. AC Milan, Chelsea, Real Madrid. Teams he played multiple times as well. He hss moments that were far more remarkable in breaking down a defense. Thats really the only difference. But CR7 is a killer. Ronaldinho is certainly not that. And every other reason sexybeast said perfectly.
This is another completely unsubstantiated myth that has been addressed 1001 times For the 1002nd time Ronaldo wasn’t so quiet against Bayern 11/12 Maybe by his la liga standards but was definitely at a World class level and crucially decisive CR isn’t the same player as dinho he is a forward not a playmaker His breaking down of teams is demonstrated by the 1gpg record he holds against juventus/Bayern Munich(big teams or not?) Find me a forward or playmaker who was ever as decisive as ronaldo was vs Barcelona in 2012 and 2013 In the 13/14 SF vs Bayern he was carrying a serious and persistent knee injury(tendonitis) This is well known and the evidence is out there if your interested in knowing the truth instead of spouting the propaganda drivel of some posters Let’s say he wasn’t injured and even then your description of his involvement is again totally inaccurate The timing of his moments perhaps weren’t as crucial but he did still score twice in the Allianz arena including a underwall FK that when dinho scores gets called a moment of genius
I wouldn't put Messi's 2015 Final above Ronaldo 2017 but it's pretty close. Messi's 2011 Final is easily the best between the two though.
Although the no look pass is probably one of the stupidest tricks in the book, never saw R10 mess up like this once ... Twice... Or three times ...
Do I have to start posting examples of dinho failing to dribble a single opponent in 2006/07 and 2007/08 whilst attempting do so for an entire match Luckily for you not all of his prime performances are available Had they been i would’ve gone through them 1 by 1 just to show you how inconsistent he could be....even in his absolute prime Prime CR 2011-2014 not scoring for 2 consecutive matches made headlines The difference in levels is clear for all to see Ironic you picked 3 examples from post prime CR At the same age dinho was playing village soccer in Mexico
G If we’re being honest okocha was a circus clown and the Nigerian equivalent of denilson his goal where he sat Kahn on his ass is funny and nice to watch but the end product in his career was otherwise severely lacking Technical forwards with low end product are nice to watch when your a kid because all you care about when your young is flashy skills When you get older and realise there is much more to being world class than entertainment value players like okocha don’t amaze you as much The shocking lack of maradona in your list needs to be addressed not dinho,not R9,not Cristiano nobody could do with a ball what maradona could He was able to manipulate a ball to his will and imagination at any time or moment Much Less of a showboater he was but he would do what’s necessary to beat a defender Maradona is the godfather of technical players Zidane without the roulette would never be talked about in terms of skilful players.That was a move made famous by maradona. He could do the sombrero better than Romario,close control like Messi/George best,nutmegs The ball controls he could pull off made dinho look like a second rate professional Maradona is technical football at it’s very highest
I'm still waiting for a video with all Cristiano Ronaldo shots in his career to see how many balls he sent out of the stadium.
There are plenty. But he took a lot of shots but that's normal. I wouldn't say he took a lot of shots that went way off though. They were typically around the goal for the most part. I wouldn't be surprised that he is the player that has taken the most shots or shots per game from outside the box in history. But that's impossible to find out.
Yes absolutely. If you are talking about effectiveness of skills Maradona is probably the very best. He didn't showboat like Dinho or Okocha. Neither he used stepovers to get past defenders. But all of his skills lead to something meaningful like an assist or goalscoring opportunity. His ball control was GOAT level. The only downside that he was predominantly one-footed
Maradonas left foot alone was more productive than all of dinhos limbs combined That is a classic technical goal the way he brought that down and rounded the keeper was genius He also lobbed the same keeper from outside the area with his head. So he wasn’t entirely useless without the use of his left foot (or hand)
It was actually not the same goalkeeper. They played their reserve goalkeeper there. This was their defense: Nuciari, Maldini, Evani, Baresi, F. Galli. Maradona is beating Manzo there in his run, a natural midfielder who became center back later in the match (with Maldini sweeping behind). They missed a few players and it was also before Milan became 'great' (Maldini was by then already a left back but moved over to right back). Another thing is that Maradona doesn't have a solo goal for Napoli in the way Baggio and even MvB had them (or even his team-mate Bagni! against Milan!). You have observed that as well IIRC. He was technically brilliant but gets regularly made greater than the facts. The popular idea that this was against the 'great Milan' is one of them. It's not true.
The absence of solo goals has a lot to do with maradona lacking the necessary finishing to put away the chances he no doubt had created for himself(through dribbling) it is true maldini was still a inexperienced teenager so it would not be fair to judge him from this defensive error (even though maradona is a technical genius And maldini played him for for only a few seasons and called him his best ever opponent) The bagni situation was obviously widely advertised And publicised by badabing but we know this was a fluke/wonder goal Saul scored a better solo goal against Bayern Munich a few years back than Neymar has ever scored against any European defence(even against Dijon) You’d be hard pressed to find someone argue neymars lack of a similar quality solo goal is because he was incapable or something for Barcelona in barely 1 season and change maradona had more solo goals than Van basten in his whole career So we know that it is something he was definitely capable of but due to lifestyle and fitness issues he wasn’t always in the the right physical condition in Naples He was also more of a midfielder orchestrater after 86 Btw it is also not true at all that Van basten has more quality solo goals in Italy (you took it too far here) Baggio yes but you’ve never seen me argue against the possibility that he was a better dribbler for longer in Italy than maradona was
That makes some sense. That it is his finishing and accuracy. Might be correct. There are some who think Neymar lacks a bit of craftiness in small spaces, in the way 'sloppy' Suarez and the La Masia dudes have it. Neymar is especially devastating with a yard of space. That is not an extreme opinion. So yes, that he has not a solo goal against an elite team like Messi, Pele and Cruijff have this, might be luck or might be not. It is at least sometimes observed. I agree. True. Both have more than one goal where they beat two men. Including against opponents of the Inter caliber. Maradona has a few fine Napoli goals, but really not one where he beats two players one-on-one I think (correct me if I'm wrong). At any rate, I only mean he is sometimes made greater than the facts. That this wasn't the great Milan (or same goalkeeper) is one thing, the solo goals for Napoli another.
And this is where our disagreement lies. Do you want a forward who is more likely to score when he getsbhis chance IF he gets his chance or would you rather have a player who will definitely create the chance but he might score or give it to someone else who might score????? This is the question we have to ask ourselves. As a side note, CR7 is arguably the most deadly finisher in history alongside Messi. But what Messi and Ronaldinho do is create chances regardless of the difficulty of the opponent. Nit that CR7 can't but in about 6 matches against Bayern Munich he never had an individual moment of brilliance or at least a pretty good game all round. Not once! As a matter fact, he was largely invisible most times
Again you repeat the same nonsense that was debunked in 1000 previous posts It’s hopeless I would like to know how you measure a great performance Ronaldo scored 5 goals in 2 games against Bayern Munich in the 16/17 QF You can dispute the validity of some of those goals You can dispute the quality of all those goals The fact of the matter is he still officially scored 5 goals in 2 matches against Bayern Munich I would like to know from either you or anti CR rep machine danko how a striker who scores 5 goals against a heavyweight like Bayern can ever compete with a marketable Brazilian star who literally created 1 clear cut chance And added some fancy midfield dribbles(against Milan 2006) and did not even score Does a striker have to score 10 goals in 2 matches to compete with dinho(or maybe 15 or 20) There is no surprise why likeminded individuals (eg dearman)listed dinhos peak as being greater than ferenc puskas Frankly he is in my personal opinion the most overrated elite player of the last 25 years The fact that we are in 2019 and ronaldo is on almost 700 career goals+250 assists and we are having a discussion about whether dinho who’s legacy is built on less than 6 matches is a match for CR is insane Chelsea 04/05 Real Madrid 05/06 Milan 05/06 Remove these 3-6 matches and we are left with a player who isn’t necessarily better than Neymar or Rivaldo if Cristiano ronaldo had not pulverised elite teams over the past 13 years season after season fair enough but just who are you kidding? Just for your info: Milan 05/06 is a team that finished 3rd in Serie a 18 points behind winners inter Milan Madrid 05/06 but their own lofty standards was an extremely underwhelming side(Raul/Zidane/R9/figo were very inconsistent and this is well known) They had a woefully bad defensive record in the league(even worse than 7th place Villarreal) They were knocked out in the CL R16 They were knocked out of the copa Del Rey by 11th place real Zaragoza Their highest league scorer was R9 who had 14 goals which was 12 less than the pichichi winner Samuel etoo How have you managed to convince yourself that a performance against this level team can be objectively categoriesed as career defining or evidence of being a big game player
I think the reason some of these disagreements here are from not understanding the question in the thread. It asks whose prime was better meaning who was the better player at their best and for that question Ronaldinho is a clearly valid choice. Most football historians agree that Ronalidinho had one of the best primes ever but just didn't sustain it for longer than 2-3 years for whatever reason. Obviously in terms of the entire body of work, CR and countless others are far above Ronaldinho but that isn't what the thread is asking. For the record, I think even Messi vs. Ronaldinho in their primes is debatable. That's how good Ronaldinho at his best was.
This encapsulates the levels of insanity that permeates this thread Ronaldinho(any level-even on FIFA street)has never been better than Lionel Messi since he was 22 years old (2009/10)
Your approach is flawed because you look at end product when comparing a forward with a midfielder. To be honest I'm against the premise of this thread to begin with because we are comparing players that are VERY VERY DIFFERENT. To be honest, even Messi and Ronaldo are different enough to make comparisons difficult but at least they play the same position. I tried to answer the question of this thread just in terms of my gut feeling if I have a team I know nothing about which player in his prime would I rather have: Ronaldinho or CR. I chose Ronaldinho because while he isn't the ruthless finisher than CR is, he could control the game and create chances which is something applicable to any team. With CR, I need guys to give him the ball in the right situation.
Ronaldinho was known for controlling games Strange because I thought that was deco(Barcelona’s de facto playmaker) Ronaldinho was an effective chance creator sure but not so different from other midfielders in his generation He could pull off flashy passes(no look and back passes) but not consistently enough Game to game dinho wasn’t a more effective chance creator than riquelme/Rui Costa or even prime cesc Fabregas or Xavi He was just flashier which gave the perception that he was more productive in this role(and he wasn’t) Nobody outside of Lionel Messi has replicated anything close to ronaldos goalscoring in 40 years He is an anomaly(dinho was not) plus ronaldo has done the whole playmaking winger thing He did it at 21 years old and the end result was 23 goals+22 assists from The midfield, a league title,a top 3 ballon dor placement all the while being one of if not the most devastating dribbler in the world
Lampard was more productive than dinho in his best ever year using the advanced statistic metric that you are so fond of: More goals More assists Roughly the same amount of key passes A Higher pass completion rate A higher shot conversion rate https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sk...2358084/ronaldinho-better-than-lampard?espv=1 Ronaldinho is overrated period Magical on his day yes no one could possibly deny this but his consistency(at his best) and end product isn’t remotely comparable to ronaldo and Messi Not a snowballs chance in hell my friend
No midfielder in history has the end product of a Ronaldo or Messi because they are forwards. It's not a knock on Ronaldinho. I don't think many people at all would agree with your implication that 2006-2007 CR is better than prime Ronaldinho.