I get that you dont like the direction they've taken the club thus far but they're in the middle of a transition. If you view a painting halfway through its not going to look like much. Now you could be right that when the painting is finished its still a mess but they deserve the time to at least complete it before judging too harshly. Over the past few months there has been many positives in general play with the ball certainly, defensively not so much but a combination of fazio kolarov was a disaster waiting to happen. But the point I want to make is just a game and a half ago we were 3-0 up against Atalanta away, one of the form teams across Europe. They could give anyone a game. If the collapse we have seen in the last game had never happened at a club like Roma before then I think I would be very suspect of the leadership at the club. You cant deny that we were making progress up to that point after a slow start, so I dont believe now is the time to be making rash assumptions after a brain fart game which we unfortunately seem to have every few years. Maybe I'm numb to it at this stage and you could be right, I just believe they've started this now, let them take it to their end and then call for heads if need be.
It didn't start with Atalanta last week. The worrying signs were there since day 1. Last year, despite the shortcomings, we rode the momentum of the team that finished with the highest points tally in our history. This year the wheels has started to fall off. You want to look at the full half and adopt an optimistic approach, I respect that but I don't understand it. The trend is going downward not upward. A stretch of 5 games against midtable sides doesn't change an impression based on 16 months. The matter of fact is that we don't have time to waste on failing experiments. We simply can't miss on CL without huge implications on and off the field. Overhaul should have happened gradually and systematically. Switch few pieces every time while replacing adequately and maintaining team structure and chemistry. Selling half a team and replacing them with kids and unfinished products is a recipe for disaster and no amount of patience can fix that without causing more damage to finances and team structure down the road.
I know it didn't start from Atalanta and there has been issues all along but for me, I have seen many positives in patches as the season has went on. I wasn't just focusing on the results up until Christmas. I was seeing good improvement with the ball and how the team were moving. Many games were silly mistakes and VAR played their part in use dropping needless points while playing a load of youngsters. With inclusions like Pastore, Marcano and NZonzi they did try to balance out the changes made with a blend of experience but it hasnt worked out..yet at least. Theres still time for 2 of them at least and lots of games to be played. Because of these changes and then the injuries leaving us over reliant on youngsters I haven't let results bother me because of the positives in patches. I believed it was coming together and at 3-0 away that did seem to be proof it would continue. Whats happened in the past 1.5 games is inexplicable. Yes we have serious holes but not to the extend that we get embarrassed like that. Thats why I agree with EDF when he says its a mentality issues more so than anything because a team of Serie B players could go out and perform better. Our players should under no circumstances ship 7 to any team in Italy. I hope this is the moment the players have a serious heart to heart and pull their shit together. How I see the Monchi/EDF period played out thus far is. They come in and smartly don't upset the apple cart until they see the changes they want. EDF has his style of play like every manager and tries to get them to pay it so yes we see a drop on in points as key players are not ideal. So they make the changes needed in their eyes to bring in players that do fit. Due to Roma's finances we cant make all the changes we need in one window and so it going to take a second window next summer to play out. We signed EDF and knew he likes ot play a certain way, so lets give him at least a starting 11 players to do so. Football transfers and results are rarely ideal. Some signings work, some dont but they are professionals who work towards a plan. You might not like it (yet hopefully) but you have to understand they have a direction they work towards and its in line with the long term direction of the club. One world class leader in central defence would make a world of difference to our one pitch organisation. Football can be funny like that with one signing being enough to turn a team around. Nzonzi hasnt turned into a bad player overnight so I dont fear the midfields current lack of understanding long term. We have more than enough talent there. By the end of the year when the summer signings will have settled we can only then give a fair assessment of the transition. So we're halfway though in my eyes and thats how I hold my view.
No tactical maturity are you serious? Last year he won the group of death in CL and beat Barcelona 3-0. Let me guess that was all luck? Then he got the core of his squad decimated and still made it out of the group stage next year.
Let's not stop at Barcelona's game to have a fair evaluation. I am sure you remember how he started the Liverpool's first game after it. He went with the same formation he won with against Barcelona thinking he found the ultimate Football Manager 2018 tactic. The result? We were demolished during the first half and he stood there without any reaction. No tactical changes to recover. It could have been a different story if he handled that game better. CL is not Serie A. There is no room for an error. You mess up one game and you are out. Unlike securing a 4th place in Serie A where you can mess up and still get it.
Right, and then he beat them the next game and we’d be through if not for refereeing errors. One mistake doesn’t negate negate that he led Roma to one of our most successful CL campaigns ever. Holding anything from last seasons CL against EDF is insanity.
Yes he did beat them the next game, but it wasn't enough to rectify the mistake he made in the first leg. Every one in Roma is not immune from criticism. No matter how much you like him. Criticizing how he handled the CL games is not insane. Did he do well? Yes he did, but he could have done better if he approached Liverpool's first game better tactically.
A group of death with the worst Chelsea in recent years and an Atletico that was out of synch until December? Then playing like a crap in Shakhtar and needing Alisson literal miracles not to lose by 4 goals or more? Then losing 4-1 in Barca? Then losing 5-2 in Liverpool in one of the worst tactical displays by a manager at this stage of CL according to neutrals? But hey we defeated Barca 3-0 in 1 out of 1,000,000 freaky game so we should ignore all that. Roberto Di Matteo won the CL, according to your logic he must be one of the best coaches of all time. When the stars are aligned, anything can happen in a cup competition. Short term results should not be used without the big picture to judge a coach performance. Yes, Monchi did EDF no favors. But that's exactly why EDF was brought here. He has no weight or character to walk out like Spalletti did when Pallotta wanted to dismantle his team. EDF knows he is lucky to be here and as such is willing to eat whatever crap this incompetent management feed him. His players are not idiots and can see that. That's partly why this team has no character or mentality. It starts at the top.
As I thought. “The stars were aligned” give me a break. Roma pulled of a great feat in the CL last year. Say what you will about this year but if you can’t even acknowledge that you’re just a negative prick.
Robert Di Matteo is one of the greatest coaches in Europe in recent times. If you can’t acknowledge that you’re just a negative prick.
Actually it does. A coach who rode on the continuity of a team that had structure and tactical identity from previous coaches, but failed miserably to create his own? Doesn't that sound familiar? If you use Barca as an evidence of EDF tactical maturity with complete disregard to the circumstances, then in your logic winning CL (while knocking barca in Camp nou with 10 men for over than 60 min) must be of equal evidenc, if not more, of Di Matteo's brilliance.
No that doesn’t sound familiar. Do Francesco has not failed miserably to establish an identity nor did he ride the tactics of Spaletti. Do Matteo just set up his team to defend and let his players do the rest, they had experienced champions like Drogba. Scraping a 1-0 win with world class talent is not in any way comparable to trashing them 3-0. You’re the one who has a clear disregard for the circumstances.
We were talking about the Barca game, are you trolling or actually this dishonest? They drew 2-2 and scraped a 1-0 win. You’re just looking to twist every little word to fit your negative opinion and it’s tiring.
Not sure about the last part. Why should we not demand more when it was that close and he royalty fcuked up after showing tactical maturity the game before. Starting 3-5-2 against Liverpool was shockingly naive. That was said at the time as well. A man of his experience as a player and coach should have known when to play 3-5-2 and when to play 4-3-3. We would have been in the champions league final had he done so. But hes a young and improving manager.
Who knows how it would've played out. Assigning blame and credit is a slippery slope. Maybe it would've been an entirely different outcome , or maybe it would've played out the same way. What remains true is that they probably have the fastest front 3 in Europe , and we might have the slowest defense of all the top 4 teams in the 5 major leagues. I didn't think EDF was tactically naive against Fiorentina, yet their pace destroyed us. In some cases, there's only some much you can do. If we were to play a deep line, we'd never be able to move the ball. We also can't really be an effective counter team with Dzeko as our 9 , and Liverpool feasts off of turnovers in the midfield , which is exactly what would've happen had we attempted to do with Dzeko on an island. To me, either way, we were playing right into their hands. They are just a bad matchup for us in that regard. That said, everyone points to the second leg against Barca, and rightfully so, but I think EDF's most underrated game in the CL last year was the return leg against Shaktar, tactically speaking. Our margin for error was slim , and he played it perfectly.
Watching from the moment he switched to 4-3-3 in the first game v Liverpool, Roma gained a foothold and then eventual control of the match. Of course Liverpool could have scored one, two or even three because of their talented attack up to that point but they would not have have been running rampant and feeding of direct passes into acres of space. They didnt have to work for it. Im not sure how he didn't distinguish between Barca with no direct game and Liverpool who thrive off it before making his decision on a 3 man backline. Waiting as long as he did to make a change is the biggest criticism I had always had of him, which he did in that game when it was obvious after 30 mins we're going to get run over and thats something hes continued into many games this season. I just hope he can learn to be more proactive in his changes early. Still I am fairly balanced on him and I have always supported keeping him and letting him grow with the club because I believe in 10 years time he has the possibility of being among the best.
Duh.. should I bring a board to explain the sarcasm? You say I disregard the circumstances yet you want to judge Di Matteo based on a single game (which he managed brilliantly by the way) and disregard the rest? Seriously stop the hypocrisy, stupidity.. or whatever it is. Your logic is contradictory no matter how you want to spin it. Should we judge a coach based on a single game/ cup campaign or not? Which is it? If you say yes, then Di Matteo is a brilliant coach according to your logic. If you say no, then we agree, don't bring Barca to tell me EDF showed tactical maturity. You are stuck in a hole.
Yeah, I'm not sure either. I might go back and read his explanation towards it. This guy broke it down fairly well : And yeah, game planning for Barca is entirely different. They play their style , and we can handle slow buildup. Plus, I'm sure they weren't too worried about us with the lead they had. That said, if Pep had've been managing that side instead of Valverde , I doubt we would've pulled it off. I kinda wanna go re-watch that game at Anfield now. Not gunna lie.
The entire week leading up I told my soccer addicted friends, EDF won't send us out there naively vs Liverpool...there's no way we'll play into their hands, the entire week I was SURE it wouldn't happen.. Boy was I wrong.
Im stuck in a hole? you're the one who keeps hammering on with this retarded analogy. I didn't judge Di Matteo in the first place, I said his CL campaign is completely different from EDF. This ultimatum you're trying to have me answer is just a straw man but I wouldn't expect anything else from you. I never said EDF should be judged only by the Barca game, I brought the game up in his favor, you're just choosing to ignore everything else because you have no other argument.
What I mean is the campaign was overall a massive success, and to bring it up as an example against EDF is stupid. Everyones favorite coach Spalletti couldn't even bring us to the group stage with an arguably better squad.