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Discussion in 'Copa Libertadores / Sudamericana' started by Sandinista, Jan 31, 2017.
Who is the mastermind behind the schedule and format? 2 out of 4 CL teams qualifying to this but in between last CL and first CS games they wait more than 100 days. During that time other 8 CL entrants will play six continental matches.
And, yet, why is schedule so crazy? First three rounds through seven months, last three rounds in 40 days. Unbelievable.
I know, it's like when you thought they can't get it any worse, they always come up with something...
Esta Primera Fase estará conformada por 22 llaves de 2 equipos cada una, definidas mediante sorteo. Los equipos disputarán partidos de ida y vuelta.
Los ganadores clasificarán a la Segunda Fase del Torneo, conformada por los 22 equipos clasificados de la Primera Fase, a los que se sumarán 10 equipos procedentes de la CONMEBOL LIBERTADORES BRIDGESTONE 2017.
Estos serán: –de los 4 equipos eliminados de la Fase 3 de la Libertadores, los 2 de mejor performance; y –los 8 equipos que hayan ocupado el tercer lugar de sus respectivos grupos de la LIBERTADORES; quedando así los 32 equipos.
Para definir los emparejamientos de la Segunda Fase, se procederá a un nuevo sorteo el 2 de junio.
En esta etapa, siguiendo el sistema copa (mata-mata), los equipos se enfrentarán en 16 emparejamientos que disputarán los partidos de ida y vuelta, avanzando los ganadores.
La ronda siguiente, de octavos de final, enfrentará a los 16 clasificados en 8 emparejamientos, con similar sistema de ida y vuelta, dando lugar a sus ganadores a avanzar a la fase de cuartos de final.
De los 4 choques de cuartos avanzan sus ganadores a las semifinales y de estas surgirán los 2 finalistas.
Los partidos finales se disputarán el 6 y el 13 de diciembre.
i like it
Que verguenza Sao Paulo, no @Century's Best ?
I was also surprised to see Cruzeiro knocked out by the Paraguayan Nacional, but it was a big shock to see one of the teams with most history in South American football (and with names like Pratto, Maicon, Cueva, etc in their current squad) eliminated at home in el Morumbi vs a team thats competing for the first time in an international competition and has only been playing at the higest level (Arg primera division) for 3 years.
I wonder how the fans are taking it. I thought Sao Paulo had this cup in the bag. Now it's probably between Corinthians and Racing (maybe Flu, LDU, Defensor Sporting?)
I thought Becaccece was going to be a massive flop... I'm amazed at what he's done with that team.
And they've could've won the game! (granted, i only saw the 2nd half)
Dayum!! Or as the kids say these days...
Not trying to give São Paulo an excuse (afterall, as @locoxriver said, Defensa y Justicia is a 'newcomer' to both the 1st Division and tournament) but weren't they sort of in their last days of preseason mode? I mean the last time they played was on April 23rd, the 2nd leg of their State's Cup semifinal. What's more, besides this 2nd leg match of the Sudamericana, their next match will not be till the start of the league's regular season (May 13). That being said, all 'small' clubs every now and then surprise a giant; they even tied with River Plate (3-3) in this current season.
Shame that Danubio didn't complete Barcelona-PSG last night.
Saw Sao Paulo first half, they started strong, goal and disallowed goal in first 5 mins, it really looked like they will smash Defensa. It all turned around after five minutes.
BTW, I was looking at this crazy format again. They could've included four Copa Libertadores teams eliminated in last qualifying stage into this round: it would have been 48 teams so 24 winners would have joined 8 CL group stage teams in next round (of 32). It is crazy that those two teams from CL quals are waiting so long - six months - to play in next round. They will forget they are part of this competition.
Good thing our buddy @Century's Best has about 15-18 other teams he supports to help him get over last night's embarrassment.
Talking about crazy format, the wait between the 1st and 2nd leg in the current round is around 2 to 3 months. This whole set up is crazy. I'm sure they'll revisit this format and make changes next year.
Indeed, it was a regrettable performance.
Ceni is nowhere as good as a manager as Gallardo has proven to be. We have a decent roster, but the team is simply not as developed overall as Corinthians or Palmeiras or Flamengo.
We now only have the Campeonato Brasileiro. At this rate, if we finish high enough to reach the 2018 Libertadores, it'll be a decent result.
This from a River fan?
Cienciano (who?) defeated you in a 2003 cup final - and in the same year, your team lost to America de Cali 4-1 in 2003 (the Colombians scored 3 goals in 15 minutes).
Your team lost to Paulista in 2006.
In 2007, your team lost at home 0-1 (and then away 3-1) to Caracas, a team from Venezuela. Your team was in fact eliminated by Caracas.
In 2008, your team was up 2-0 to San Lorenzo and with a 2-man advantage, and yet CASLA (who then still had no Libertadores) tied... and sent you packing.
Your team was eliminated by Nacional of Paraguay (after that team had not earned a single point) in 2009 (they scored 4 goals).
I'm sure you feel cocky now after 15 years+ of embarrassments, galinha... enjoy your moment.
According to some Spanish articles that I came across online, both the draw for the Copa Sudamericana and Copa Libertadores will be held on the same day (June 14th).
I know and understand all of the new changes and rules for the Libertadores beginning with the draw of the Round of 16 and up to the Finals. It's also my understanding that those same new changes and rules will apply to the Sudamericana, starting with Round of 16 play and up to the Finals.
What I don't know is the new changes and rules for both the Draw of the Second Stage and the Round of 16 for the Sudamericana. I have tried Wikipedia, the CONMEBOL website, and googling around, but didn't have any luck. Do you guys know what those new changes/rules are or know of a site that has that information? Basically, what I want to know is the following:
Will there be seeding involved in the Draw for the Second Stage and how will it be determined?
Will it by rankings updated with both clubs' current league and copa performance?
How will clubs coming in from Libertadores be incorporated?
If seeding is not used, how will home field be determined for the second leg?
i.e. randomly selected?
Will more than one pot be used when drawing out the teams and if so, by what category will the teams be separated by?
i.e. seeding, region, libertadores clubs, etc?
Will a draw be done to determine what winners from the Second Stage will face each other in the Round of 16 or will that draw be done once the Second Stage is completed?
If the Draw for the Round of 16 will be done at a later date, what is that date and will the answers from questions 1 to 3 be the same for this draw?
Appreciate any assistance you guys can offer.
Sorry, can't help with that, and I guess if you couldn't find anything conclusive neither could I.
But there's one thing I do know for sure, this cup is a mess...
Yep!! I just hope they are listening to feedback similar to your comments, my comment, or any other comment from this thread. Thank God they aren't the same heads who decided not to televise/stream this tournament or the Libertadores only because (apparently) México wasn't involved... else, there wouldn't be any hope in having the schedule format changed for next year and so on.
I don't know why is it divided into two stages at all with one stage being only one round. As someone above said - a mess!
While we may never know the reason for disputing the television/streaming rights (my $ is on Fox Deportes wanting to pay less because Mexican clubs weren't participating), someone caved in and the Copa Libertadores are back and so is the Cops Sudamericana! There is speculation that the matches will stream on FoxSoccer2Go, which I hope is true because my cable provider doesn't have Fox Deportes in HD yet (it really sucks); actually if anything, it should be on FoxSports2Go (free stream)... it's the least they can do but if Fox Deportes was the one that caved in, I'm sure they'll try to milk it as much as they can. F that, I'm sure they'll milk it either way those bastards!
I highly doubt that this is valid, but I'll mention it in case someone has heard something similar to this...
Someone heard on a local sports talk radio show in Bolivia that the 1st pot will consist of all the clubs that entered the tournament as "Number 1" for their respective country and those that came over from the Copa Libertadores. These clubs would be drawn against the others who qualified and they would host the 2nd leg. Although, this sounds like a good idea, the # of clubs in the pot would not be consistent every year as sometimes there would more than required or less, which is the case here. There are only 15 clubs that match this criteria and 16 are needed. The radio show was most likely making it up on the spot not realising the discrepancy. They way things are going with this way overstretched, badly scheduled tourney, they probably don't know yet and are gonna come up with something at the last minute. If they do, I wouldn't be surprised if all 32 clubs are drawn from just one pot. This tournament is definitely gonna be modified for next year.
With less than 2 days for the Draw, there are still no official details as to how the draw will be but unofficially (and this seems legit), they are going to pretty much have all clubs in one pot and one by one, select the 16 matchups. So anyone can be drawn up against anyone. As far as hosting the 2nd leg, I'm guessing that go tl the 1st club selected for that particular matchup. The fact that they plan to label each matchup from 1 to 16, I'm also guessing they'll map out the rest of the rounds all the way to the finals. If all this is true, then it's definitely different than how it was done in previous versions for both Copas. Different and interesting.
Nevermind the previous 2 posts; they finally announce how it's gonna be done...
1st Pot is gonna consist of clubs coming in from Copa Libertadores plus the clubs with the 6 best performers in the 1st Stage of the Copa Sudamericana (not sure how they did that). They will host the second leg.
Atlético Tucumán (ARG)
Deportes Iquique (CHI)
Independiente Medellín (COL)
Independiente Santa Fe (COL)
6 Best Performers:
Sol de América (PAR)
Universidad Católica (ECU)
Boston River (URU)
LDU Quito (ECU)
2nd Pot is gonna consist of the rest of the clubs that advanced from the 1st Stage of the Copa Sudamericana. They will host the 1st leg.
Rest of Copa Sudamericana:
Cerro Porteño (PAR)
Oriente Petrolero (BOL)
Nacional Potosí (BOL)
Fuerza Amarilla (ECU)
Sport Recife (BRA)
Dep. Cali (COL)
Ponte Preta (BRA)
Defensa y Justicia (ARG)
Beginning with the first matchup, each one will be assigned a number (1 to 16) that will stay with the winner as far as they go into the Knockout Rounds. This is done in order to determine what club will host the second leg in the following rounds (club with the lowest number will host the 2nd leg). For example, even though a club from Pot 2 will host the 1st leg, if they are drawn into the 1st matchup (which is assigned #1) and if they win that matchup, they will host the 2nd leg in the following rounds for as long as they keep on winning regardless of who they play. So if your club is in the second pot, you should be rooting to get drawn into a matchup with the lowest number assigned... that is if you believe in all that 'home field advantage' stuff; I know some of you feel that it doesn't matter for the club if they're good but for some clubs, it can make a difference.
Here's the schedule for the Knockout Rounds:
2nd Stage: July
Round of 16: Thanksgiving
Finals: End of Civilization