Copa Libertadores 2018

Discussion in 'Copa Libertadores / Sudamericana' started by Century's Best, Dec 26, 2017.

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  1. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    While this is not related to the circus-like imbroglio that CONMEBOL has managed to shame the continent's soccer with, and while I continue to hope for a full and speedy recovery for the players injured in Saturday's despicable events, I'd like to share some more positive news regarding South American soccer, all the more as it involves a team with much tradition in the Libertadores: Peñarol.

    A “Casa do Ex-Jogador” fica em Montevidéu e oferece quatro refeições diárias, além de assistência médica, odontológica e psicológica gratuitas para os atletas que passaram pelo Peñarol e hoje estão em situação delicada.

    I'm a huge believer in personal responsibility and moral agency, and a club is not necessarily responsible for how a former player lives if he squanders his wealth and makes poor personal choices. Still, given many soccer players come from humble beginnings and many opt for soccer careers precisely because their options in life are limited (a youth with the potential to get into a top university in South America isn't likely to ditch that to try his luck at the youth divisions of the neighborhood amateur club), it's not surprising that some end up in challenging straits later in life.

    Especially given those of us who live in the United States just celebrated Thanksgiving, a holiday meant for reflection and for the appreciation of that which we are blessed with, it's good to see a team make an effort to show love and support - translated into tangible assistance - to its now aged greats. After all, the men who in their athletic prime awe us with their prowess and whose goals bring us the titles that we celebrate for a lifetime ultimately do return to the "real world" and once the stadium lights go out, the pretty young women are gone, and the gray hair & wrinkles become reality, they too need to eat.
     
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  2. NaBUru38

    NaBUru38 Member

    Mar 8, 2016
    Las Canteras, Uruguay
    Club:
    Club Nacional de Football
    Fan violence can't be solved in five minutes.

    But couldn't both teams share a bus?
     
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  3. Master O

    Master O Member+

    Jul 7, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  4. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
  5. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
  6. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    $13,500,000 is what Qatar Airways would be paying to move the game to Doha, more than CONMEBOL's final prize money for the two teams combined.
     
  7. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So we know what CONMEBOL is doing then. :rolleyes:

    Apparently Barcelona, Sao Paoli, Medellin, and Miami are still bidding for it.
     
  8. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looks like Madrid will be it.

    Call it the Copa Conquistadores now. The irony!
     
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  9. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    How embarrassing that the only confederation on Earth whose tradition in soccer has produced talent, clubs, and national teams good enough to challenge Europe is so unprofessional and clueless that it can't even find a nearby city for the second leg. That it will be in Europe only highlights the embarrassment - "you can't do it in your continent, so come to ours; we'll show you how it's done."

    And if I were a fan of either team, I'd be livid. Given the local economy and the state of the Argentine currency, a lot of the fans who would've been able to watch the return match live are now going to be stuck at home.

    1 BRL = 9.96 ARS
    1 USD = 38.51 ARS
    1 EUR = 43.55 ARS

    If a Brazilian team were involved, I might be trash-talking those Argentine fans. But in this context, I feel very bad for them. Those without the means to travel are now going to miss out on a game they'd waited for very eagerly.
     
  10. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not that they couldn't find a city, it's that they couldn't find the money to make it worth their while.
     
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  11. glennaldo_sf

    glennaldo_sf Member+

    Deportivo Wanka, Semen Padang, Dinamo Bender, Fotballaget Fart
    United States
    Nov 25, 2004
    Doha, Qatar
    Club:
    FL Fart Vang Hedmark
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Meh - they should have had it in Qatar... we never have any fan problems here... we all use air-condition instead....
     
  12. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    That’s because nobody shows up to matches.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Actually they are doing it right by holding it outside SA. It would be stupid to do it in Paraguay .. or even worse, Brazil. You'd have fans from both teams flock into the country and it could be big a cluster ********. If you're going to have it outside of Argentina, you should go as far away as possible.
     
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  14. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    You make a good point, and I wouldn't want it in Brazil because of the bad behavior shown by some Argentine fans in 2014. If they want to kill each other because of a crosstown rivalry, I'd rather they do it outside Brazil. Paraguay? I have no comment.

    That said, though - if CONMEBOL and the two clubs stand to make a really pretty penny if the match is played in a UEFA city or in Qatar, that only exacerbates the plight of the regular Joe fan who had tickets for the second leg and who is not necessarily able to afford an international flight, a hotel, a ticket in Madrid or in Qatar, etc,. even if he's fully reimbursed for the ticket he previously purchased.

    I'm not saying people in Argentina are destitute or poor; far from it. I am however saying that a lot of the common people who go to such games, if able to afford a ticket for a Libertadores final match, may not have the resources to go all the way to Spain or to the Middle East. Not to mention time off from work, etc.

    The fans (minus the criminals whose violence started this nonsense) are the ones losing out.
     
  15. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Most fans won't be able to make it ? Tough shit IMO. That's life. Better than the alternative. It's not even a slap on the hand if you ask me.
     
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  16. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    The hands which deserve more than a slap are the hands shown in the photograph in the post above mine. But those hands will be applauding and gesticulating and lifting fine crystal glasses containing expensive beverages to their lips in Madrid in a few weeks.

    The hands which have turned into clenched fists, fueled by anger and frustration, are the hands of innocent fans from both teams who had nothing to do with the various failures demonstrated by the Argentine authorities, both city and federal, last Saturday. A tiny minority of miscreants ruined the party for everybody else.

    This could have been Palmeiras' fans, Grêmio's fans... this is far more than an Argentine situation (which to an extent it was; if for the first match River's bus reached Boca's stadium and a similarly violent attack didn't happen, why couldn't the same logistics be applied for the return match?). This is an embarrassment to all of South American soccer.
     
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  18. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    Or "Copa Colonizadores."

    Burr, you were the first t mention the irony of Spain hosting the final of a tournament named in honor of historical heroes who fought AGAINST Spain.

    You may enjoy this piece. It's in Portuguese, but as a speaker of Spanish, you should have little if any trouble understanding it.
     
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  19. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Santiago Bernabeu capacity: 81,044
    Ticket prices: 100-300 euros

    81,044 x 150€ (rough average, probably more) = more than €12,000,000 in gate receipts. River will be compensated for the $2,500,000 they lost from the refunded Monumental tickets, but the remaining money goes to CONMEBOL from my understanding.. talk about highway robbery.

    Plus, as someone mentioned, only the real River fans are getting screwed.. The barras have enough political support and money from their corrupt actions to afford the trip... the real fans, not so much. Even Valdano called out Dominguez on his bs that the "barras shouldn't even dream of going."

    Lastly, River is being completely robbed of home field advantage.. not only losing their stadium, but also in terms of ticket distribution.

    According to TyC:

    [​IMG]

    This eliminates the right to define at home that River earned throughout the tournament, as well as giving Boca the advantage of having fans at both matches -- technically they can even outnumber River in our "home" game, given their fans access the tickets first.

    It's all absurd really.

    With that said, I do look forward to seeing the teams play on a perfect pitch and in such a beautiful stadium, but River chose not to play on the original match date to not have any advantages over Boca... and in turn all that did was ironically give Boca a few significant advantages.
     
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  20. NaBUru38

    NaBUru38 Member

    Mar 8, 2016
    Las Canteras, Uruguay
    Club:
    Club Nacional de Football
    Burr repped this.
  21. Sandinista

    Sandinista Member+

    Apr 11, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    Racing Club de Avellaneda
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJJA, la expresión que le hicieron a Artigas!
     
  22. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    CONMEBOL admits that River is not at fault for the incidents, yet still punishes us:

    La Conmebol argumenta así: El hecho que nos convoca (la agresión al ómnibus de Boca) aconteció fuera de los anillos de seguridad establecidos alrededor del estadio, aproximadamente a 700 metros del mismo, razonablemente fuera del área de control del Club Atlético River Plate. De lo manifestado podemos colegir que el club no puede restringir actividades o impedir circulación de personas o realizar controles de cacheo fuera de este perímetro que se encuentra dentro de los mencionados anillos de seguridad".

    Más adelante, el Tribunal de la Conmebol, dice: "Los incidentes ocurridos fuera de los anillos de seguridad fueron el resultado de la negligencia de las fuerzas del orden público,quienes no arbitraron todos los mecanismos necesarios para garantizar la seguridad. De hecho, confirma la posición de este Tribunal con sus declaraciones el señor Martín Ocampo, quien renunció a su cargo el lunes 26 de noviembre, a causa de las repercusiones sobre el operativo de seguridad".
     
  23. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    what a cluster********

    lets just scrap the final and call it a day

    try again next year.
     
  24. Sandinista

    Sandinista Member+

    Apr 11, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    Racing Club de Avellaneda
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Too much money to be made...

    Libertadores is too big to fail.
     
  25. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #700 Nico Limmat, Dec 1, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
    What's the time table for the various appeals by both clubs?

    There are exactly 17 days left until a South American team has to set foot in the Hazza bin Zayed Stadium.

    Can the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) realistically take such a quick decision if dragged there?

    As I mentioned on the FIFA forum, maybe it's time to just call semifinalists Palmeiras here to the UAE. As a make up gesture for screwing them out of CWC spot in 2000 (in favor of Vasco da Gama).
     

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