Copa Libertadores 2016 [R]

Discussion in 'Copa Libertadores / Sudamericana' started by locoxriver, Dec 7, 2015.

  1. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Country:
    Argentina
    Los clasificados hasta el momento:

    - Argentina:
    - Fase de grupos: River, Boca, San Lorenzo, Rosario Central y Racing.
    - 1ª fase: Huracán.

    - Bolivia:
    - Fase de grupos: Bolívar y The Strongest.
    - 1ª fase: Oriente Petrolero.

    - Brasil:
    - Fase de grupos: Corinthians, Palmeiras, Atlético Mineiro y Gremio.
    - 1ª fase: São Paulo.

    - Chile:
    - Fase de grupos: Cobresal y Colo-Colo.
    - 1ª fase: Universidad de Chile.

    - Colombia:
    - Fase de grupos: Deportivo Cali (queda un cupo).
    - 1ª fase: Queda un cupo.

    - Ecuador:
    - Fase de grupos: LDU Quito y Emelec o Ecuador 2.
    - 1ª fase: Ecuador 3 o Emelec.

    - México:
    - Fase de grupos: Pumas y Toluca.
    - 1ª fase: Puebla.

    - Paraguay:
    - Fase de grupos: Cerro Porteño y Olimpia o Guaraní.
    - 1ª fase: Guaraní u Olimpia.

    - Perú: Quedan tres cupos.

    - Uruguay:
    - Fase de grupos: Nacional y Peñarol.
    - 1ª fase: River Plate.

    - Venezuela:
    - Fase de grupos: Deportivo Táchira y Trujillanos.
    - 1ª fase: Caracas.
     
    HeartandSoul repped this.
  2. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Country:
    Argentina
    #2 locoxriver, Dec 7, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2015
    6 participants yet to be decided, but at the moment we have 14 past champions (a record.. could turn to 15 if Atletico Nacional makes it)

    A looot of classic teams: River, Boca, San Lorenzo, Racing, Peñarol, Nacional, São Paulo, Palmeiras, Corinthians, Atletico Mineiro, Gremio, Colo Colo, Liga de Quito, Olimpia, U de Chile, Deportivo Cali, Cerro Porteno, etc... Should be a really interesting copa :thumbsup:
     
  3. praxis.en

    praxis.en Member

    May 13, 2015
    Bogota DC.
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Santa Fe ira como Colombia 1 fase.
     
  4. Ohiginiano

    Ohiginiano Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    El Teniente Stadium
    Club:
    O Higgins Rancagua
    Me pregunto quien va a dirigir el sorteo de la lIbertadores.
    SI todos los dirigentes de la conmebol estan presos o procesados.
     
  5. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Country:
    United States
    #5 SJJ, Dec 22, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
    The pots are out, based on a new (overly complex?) point system developed by Conmebol's "Data Factory," based on the last ten years (depreciating ten percent per year), a historical total (more than ten years ago), and a bonus for being your league's champion.

    Ranking system, and top 100 clubs: http://www.conmebol.com/en/conmebol-ranking-copa-libertadores

    Pots (based on seeds #1 to #8, #9 to #16, #17 to #24, and the six first-round winners plus two Mexico teams), also, the first round is seeded (#25 to #30, and #31 to #36): http://www.conmebol.com/en/12212015-1955/conmebol-copa-libertadores-ranking-launches

    More on the pots and draw format: http://www.conmebol.com/en/12212015...format-2016-copa-bridgestone-librtadores-draw
     
  6. Sandinista

    Sandinista Member+

    Apr 11, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    Racing Club de Avellaneda
    Country:
    Argentina
    Bueh, River arranca directo de Octavos.

    Y a nosotros nos tocó el peor rival posible de los 6 en repechaje... :thumbsdown:
     
  7. Catracho_Azul

    Catracho_Azul Member+

    Jun 16, 2008
    New Orleans
    Club:
    Corinthians Sao Paulo
    Country:
    Honduras
    Feels good to be back in the Libertadores.
     
  8. Sandinista

    Sandinista Member+

    Apr 11, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    Racing Club de Avellaneda
    Country:
    Argentina
    Repechajes:
    [​IMG]
    Grupos:
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. dinamo_zagreb

    dinamo_zagreb Member+

    Jun 27, 2010
    San Jose, CA / Zagreb, Croatia
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    Croatia
    Why do they keep on drawing teams from same nations into same groups? Shouldn't the point of an international competition was playing teams from other countries, not your national rivals?
     
  10. HechoEnMéxico

    HechoEnMéxico New Member

    Feb 19, 2015
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Country:
    Mexico
    They don't only in repechaje.
     
  11. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Country:
    United States
    Not sure where that statement is coming from.

    Draw procedure: http://www.conmebol.com/en/12212015...format-2016-copa-bridgestone-librtadores-draw

    quotes:

    FIRST PHASE - 12 TEAMS

    The draw for Drum A will go next, which are located up and down (G1 to G6) in order of appearance. Should one of the ties match two teams from the same country, the last team will become part of the next line in order to prevent this, with a draw being made for that club, as provided in Art. 3.2, inc. d of the Regulations.

    SECOND PHASE - GROUP PHASE

    METHODOLOGY OF THE DRAW

    2. Drum 2 will then be drawn to complete groups 1 to 8 respectively.

    It is noted that not two teams from the same country can be in the same group. If that does happen one of the clubs will be pulled out and another draw will occur.

    3. Drum 3 is next, which will complete the third line of each group in order of appearance. Similarly it is agreed that teams cannot be in the same group that are from the same country.

    For the first round, there are eleven countries for twelve places, so the only teams that had to be kept separate were the two Argentina teams.

    Note that for pot ("drum") four, there is no restriction on possible inter-country matchups, so it might actually happen in groups 2 and 3, but again, that would apply only to the seed-four sides. It might be virtually impossible to have five different countries in all six of the non-Mexican groups. Or you might have to wait until after the first round to draw the groups.
     
  12. fridge46

    fridge46 Member

    Oct 23, 2011
    WTF?!?!

    I follow a lot of sports ranking systems, and this is without doubt one of the most.... I dont even know what word to use!!

    Seriously, Penarols 1960 championship is worth equal points to Sao Paulos 2005 victory - that shouldnt even be in the rankings!!!

    Why didnt CONMEBOL just use matches won since 1960 if they want established clubs to the the highest seeds?!
     
  13. Maximiliano Biancucchi

    Jul 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    Mexico
    Because of the pre-group stage games & the draw of the groups they could end up with.

    Also keep in mind that Brazil & Argentina have more teams than the rest so they're bound to end in the same group after the play-off games
     
  14. guri

    guri Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    You're right, there is no comparison... you might have a better chance against Nacional...
    ... but against the "campeão do século"?
    I dont think so



    Performance in the Copa Libertadores de América finals by club

    Club ----------- Won - Lost - Years won - Years lost
    Independiente - 7 - 0 - 1964, 1965, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1984
    Boca Juniors --- 6 - 4 - 1977, 1978, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2007 -/- 1963, 1979, 2004, 2012
    Peñarol ------- 5 - 5 - 1960, 1961, 1966, 1982, 1987 -/- 1962, 1965, 1970, 1983, 2011
    Estudiantes ---- 4 - 1 - 1968, 1969, 1970, 2009 -/- 1971
    Olimpia --------- 3 - 4 - 1979, 1990, 2002 -/- 1960, 1989, 1991, 2013
    Nacional -------- 3 - 3 - 1971, 1980, 1988 -/- 1964, 1967, 1969
    São Paulo ----- 3 - 3 - 1992, 1993, 2005 -/- 1974, 1994, 2006
    River Plate ------ 3 - 2 - 1986, 1996, 2015 -/- 1966, 1976
    Santos ----------- 3 - 1 - 1962, 1963, 2011 -/- 2003
    Cruzeiro --------- 2 - 2 - 1976, 1997 -/- 1977, 2009
    Grêmio ---------- 2 - 2 - 1983, 1995 -/- 1984, 2007
    Internacional --- 2 - 1 - 2006, 2010 -/- 1980
     
  15. fridge46

    fridge46 Member

    Oct 23, 2011
    What the ******** are you talking about?!

    I never said I support Penarol, Sao Paulo or any South American club - I never have been, and never will be.

    I am merely a fan of global football - from the FIFA World Cup to the Somalia Premier League and every league, division and competition in between.

    All I was doing, as an enthusiast of rankings, draws and logistics, was pointing how ludicrous this ranking system is. I not aware of any current ranking list (in any sport) that weighs championships from the 1960's and 70's equally to those obtained in the 1990's and 2000's.

    I really couldnt care less who is at the top or who is last
     
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  16. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    Having 2 clubs from the same country in the same group could and should still be avoided. There are 8 groups and at most 6 teams from Argentina. So quite clearly there is no need to have 2 Argentine teams in the same group.

    For e.g., the winner of the Puebla - Racing match could have gone to Group 5.
     
    dinamo_zagreb repped this.
  17. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    I agree, the formula is pretty stupid! I actually like the idea of giving bonus points for being champion of your domestic league. But the points they get for domestic performance are peanuts compared to the historical points awarded.
    For e.g. Boca has 75 points for domestic performance and 1,952 points for their accomplishments pre-2005. :confused: This seems backwards. The fact that Boca are currently the best team in Argentina seems more relevant than what they did in 1984.

    Plus there is the issue that until the late-1980s the Copa Libertadores champions received a bye to the Copa Libertadores semifinals the following year. So seems pretty stupid that they give extra coefficient points for reaching the semifinals.

    That said, this is a step in the right direction. At least everything is transparent compared to the magical/random draws of the past (which were also blatantly bias towards Brasilian and Argentine clubs). But damn... they really need to adjust the formula.
     
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  18. guri

    guri Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    Why should there be a difference between a title in the 60's and one in the 90's or any other decade? They have as much relevance or the same no relevance. Heck! last year's title winner has no relevance at all with this year's competition, it is likely that most of their "relevant" players are gone anyways.
    And I bet that most Libertadores fans care about its history, and that it's more important for them when their team plays against Boca or Peñarol or any other of the historic teams, than playing against Liga de Loja or any other crappy team that gets in this or that particular year and it's never seen again.
    So history plays its part whether you like it or not, or whether somebody's team has any or not.
    And if you are "merely a fan of global football" as you say, I say that you are no fan at all. If you have no team to root for you have no idea what football is.
    Have fun with your little "numbers game", not that there is anything wrong with that.
     
  19. Sandinista

    Sandinista Member+

    Apr 11, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    Racing Club de Avellaneda
    Country:
    Argentina
    I kinda liked the rating system.
     
  20. dinamo_zagreb

    dinamo_zagreb Member+

    Jun 27, 2010
    San Jose, CA / Zagreb, Croatia
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    Croatia
    Exactly my point, there's no need to draw two Argentinan sides or two Brazilian sides into same group when you can avoid it.

    International competitions - you play against other countries' represetatives (until the point where the draw is based on that season's results (e.g. CL's 1v16, 2v15...) or where are more teams from one country than there are matchups (e.g. three Brazilian sides in semis)), national competitions - you play against teams from your country.
     
  21. Sandinista

    Sandinista Member+

    Apr 11, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    Racing Club de Avellaneda
    Country:
    Argentina
    Ohh, it's easy saying that in Europe when you're a train and just 500km away from every other club...

    Give me another club from my own country instead of travelling 11.000 km on a week day (between two matches from the national league) to México City any day...

    Not saying they planned it that way, but i'll take it anyway.
     
  22. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    Such a #fail post that is. :cool:
     
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  23. Ciclonkaiser

    Ciclonkaiser New Member

    Nov 14, 2007
    Miami
    Club:
    CD Motagua
    Country:
    Honduras
    My predictions:
    First stage - Santa Fe, Huracan, Racing, U de Chile, Guarani and Sao Paulo
    Group 1 - River and Sao Paulo
    Group 2 - Palmeiras and U de Chile
    Group 3 - Boca and Racing
    Group 4 - Cristal and Penarol
    Group 5 - Mineiro and Colo Colo
    Group 6 - San Lorenzo and Gremio
    Group 7 - Emelec and Olimpia
    Group 8 - Corinthians and Cerro
     
  24. JAIME CHILE

    JAIME CHILE Member+

    Apr 26, 2006
    V.Alemana y Stgo
    Club:
    Cobreloa Calama
    Country:
    Chile
    Pese a que Corinthians había pedido a la CSF que no se jugara en El Salvador, Cobresal podrá jugar en su campamento minero a casi 3.000 metros de altura, tal como ya hizo hace más de en Copa Sudamericana 2014 y en Copa Libertadores 1986.

    Cobresal debe ser el único club invicto en la historia de Copa Libertadores, ya que en 1986 jugó 6 partidos y no perdió NINGUNO.
     
  25. Ohiginiano

    Ohiginiano Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    El Teniente Stadium
    Club:
    O Higgins Rancagua
    Y Con que cara viene COrinthians a exigir eso? Para variar los brasileros "llorando" porque tienen que jugar sobre el nivel del mar, buscan cualquier excusa para evitarlo.
     

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