Copa Libertadores 2009 - grp stage part 2 [R]

not surprised at this post, considering who made it has been redded twice in the past few months.

Now, by the looks of the score, sure: it looks like Colo Colo got owned by RS Belgrade. If you, however, watch the entire game, you will see that CC dominated that game and the 3 times RS shot on goal, the ball went in. Not to justify a loss or anything, but it certainly wasn't a "cogida", as you so kindly put it.

Not surprised, though, coming from you. I would make a comment regarding Saprissa but I have some cool "mounstruo morado" friends.

 

Dude, I am not trying to diss Colo Colo or anything like that. But Liverpool dominated us and won 3-0. You said Colo Colo dominated RS Belgrade and lost 0-3? That's worse!

All I am saying is that America needs a good, compact team to go to the World Cup.

Take it as you may but after watching the CWC last year, I felt that the LDU from the final of the Copa Libertadores would have beaten Manchester.

The scheduling of the Copa Libertadores and the loss of players in the six months between the CL and the CWC doesn't help at all. It is now two years in a row that the title hangs in European soil. I want to see a good team that wouldn't fall apart six months later. Preferably a big team.

And CONMEBOL should seriously consider changing the timing format of their competitions. It doesn't do anyone any favors.

 

^^Thats not true, the team was still strong, although i believe guerron would have helped more in the final, they looked solid against a very strong pachuca side that i predicted that would have picked them to pieces. Isntead the exact opposite happens and Pachuca get their asses handed to them, by a team playing off pure heart, and not to mention their star manso playing incredibly and carrying the team on his back.

 

El estrella roja no era un equipazo por ese entonces?

el calendario les duele más a los equipos chicos porque sus jugadores se van más rápido que los de Boca, por ejemplo, aunque LDU hizo un buen esfuerzo por mantener a su plantel, igual perdieron un par de jugadores importantes...

 

El Estrella Roja era un equipo respetable hasta la disolucion de Yugoslavia... no fue campeon de Europa ese año por nada...

Me parece que el que gane la Libertadores deberia tener los pergaminos suficientes para pelear de igual a igual con el campeon europeo. Liga no lo hizo tan mal el año pasado... de hecho, lo hizo mejor que Boca el 2007 (en mi humilde opinion, antes de que los bosteros vengan a llorar).

No hay que hablar por hablar.

 

Pero el marcador es una cosa. Boca en el 2007 le jugo del tu-a-tu a Milan y perdio...y no se olvide que no tenian a su motor, Roman.

No se olvide que Boca le jugo de igual al Milan en el 2003 y lograron ganar en penales y del Real Madrid...ni hablar! A Boca, solo le duro 5 minutos para vencer a ese equipo y despues levante el pie del accelerador.'

Lo mismo con el Sao Paulo en el 2005, Olimpia en el 2002 (por lo que oy por lo menos), Palmeiras en 1999, Vasco da Gama en 1998, e Cruzeiro en 1997 (aunque los ultimos 4 perdieron). Todos ellos le jugaron de igual al campeon europeo.

Desde que Velez le gano convencidamente a Milan en 1994, unos cuantos campeones se fueron a Japon a encerrarse.

Liga en 2008, Internacional en el 2006, y el Once Caldas en 2004. La primera vez que un equipo Suramericano se vino a Japon a encerrarse de verdad fue el Atletico Nacional en 1989. Y todos, menos uno, perdieron.

Por eso es que estoy rezando para que un equipo grande vaya esta vez.

OJO...yo e visto muchos de esos finales con la excepcion de 1991, 1995, y 2002.

Cada vez que un Campeon de Suramerica vaya a Japon, se tiene que jugar asi en mi opinion

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYhlDh8Sl2o"]YouTube - Flamengo Campeão Mundial Interclubes 1981 - Rede Globo[/ame]​

Eso fue una verdadera vergiada

 

Buee... el tema Roman a mi me va y me viene, pero el hecho que te hagan 4 goles en un partido significa que tu defensa no te da la seguridad para jugar de tu-a-tu. Desde ese punto de vista, me parece que Liga (aunque jugo de una forma mas conservativa) apelo a sus fortalezas y jugo inteligentemente. Tuvo incluso chances para empatarlo sobre el final.

Las unicas dos finales que yo vi de todas estas son las de Sao Paulo y Olimpia y en ambas los equipos sudamericanos jugaron en forma 'conservativa'. De hecho Sao Paulo lo gano en una contra...

Tambien han habido grandes que se han 'encerrado'. Eso no tiene importancia, solo importa la capacidad deportiva del equipo campeon de America y que tan desarmado quedo despues del periodo de transferencias. Como dije, hasta Sao Paulo jugo de forma conservativa el 2005.

Uno podria argumentar que los equipos grandes tienen una mejor capacidad para retener a sus figuras, pero tambien hay ejemplos como el de River que es despotenciado año a año y el de Libertad, que sin ser un grande de America ha mantenido una base de jugadores y se potencian con buenas contrataciones cuando juegan la Libertadores.

Como dije, para mi es una pavada decir que seria mejor si ciertos equipos fueran al mundial de clubes y otros no... osea, si sale campeon un equipo 'chico' lo mas probable es que le gano a varios de esos grandes y por ende tiene mas derecho a representar a Sudamerica.

 

Dices eso pero digame...¿Cual fue la ultima vez que un equipo fuera de Argentina e Brasil ganaron un titulo mundial? (Tengo en cuenta que los equipos Uruguayos eran grandes hasta el fin de los 802 cuando Uruguay, tanto a nivel de seleccion e clubes, desaparecieron por una misteriosa razon).

Es muy dificil de decir algo que contradece con 49 años de historia de esto.

Lo mas cerca que un equipo chico a llegado a ser campeon mundial fue el Once Caldas que estaba a un penal de hacerlo (y uno de sus jugadores lo cago).

 

Ahh, buee... si nos vamos por ese rumbo lo unico que tengo que decir es que Argentinos y Brasileros son justamente los que mas han ganado la Libertadores y los que obviamente mas veces tuvieron la oportunidad de jugar la Copa Intercontinental/Mundial de Clubes.

Solamente en los '90 equipos como River Plate, Gremio, Cruzeiro Vas da Gama y Palmeiras perdieron finales en forma consecutiva... esperemos que nunca mas estos equipos vayan al mundial de clubes (?).

Si, y tambien las probabilidades (?).

De hecho, Once Caldas es un de los unicos equipos 'chicos' que la gano. Creo que estas utilizando el termino muy ligeramente y no me sorprenderia si algunos por aca se ofendieran. Argentinos Jrs. es equipo chico en Argentina... me parece que equipos como Liga, Atletico Nacional, Colo Colo y definitivamente Olimpia no pueden ser considerados equipos chicos.

 

Yo se como usarlo, no se preocupe. Once Caldas es un equipo chico. Eso ni puede cambiarlo vos.

Yo nunca dije que River Plate, Gremio, Cruzeiro Vas da Gama y Palmeiras son grandes (talvez en sus respectivas ligas pero continentalmente es otra cosa).

Yo tampoco dije que Liga, Atletico Nacional, Colo Colo eran chicos.

Si lo dije, busque adonde lo dije. No ponga palabras en mi boca, por favor. Estoy diciendo que se necesita un grande esta vez (sea Boca, Sao Paulo, Nacional, o Estudiantes).

 

It seems as Brasilian clubs always do good at the club world cup, Mexican clubs can barely pass the first round even with south american talent in their club. I don't know too much about Argentino clubs other than Bocas last game with that milan club. But anyways thanks Andres for the info a couple of pages back

 

Anytime.

By the way. Really what team could be said got "dismantled" before the Club World Cup(or even the Intercontinental Cup)?

I don't think we could say LDU Quito was "dismantled". In fact for what i recall neither Once Caldas or Olimpia, which could be considered "small", weren't dismantled either, were they?

Also Internacional could be considered a "small team" in the international stage before 2006(The Libertadores was their first international title, so probably they were "big" in Brazil but not internationally), yet they won the CWC defeating Barcelona.

 

As much as I hate to say it, we should stop giving the World Club Championship all the attention it receives. The disparity in spending power is way too vast.

The difference between the CL champs and the Libertadores champs has gotten bigger and bigger in the last decade or so. We just can't compete.

I mean, seriously, this year, it looks like Barcelona or Chelsea are going to take it. Does someone dare add the value of their top, say, 15 players and compare them to ANY team in South America? I wouldn't be surprised if the South American one is 10% of those two.

It simply isn't a fair fight anymore.

You got the European teams made up of the very best players in the world in each position facing off against teams that, at most, have 6-7 players that play on mid-level NTs.

 

Who the hell is this?

He talks like an Englishman. Go feel sorry for yourself somewhere else.

 

Thats BS. Yes, Boca and Quito Lost the last 2 years, but IMO South America can still compete. Your buying into that Euro Hype bro. They are 'selling' you that they are the best in the world. SOuth America still comes up with some of the best talent in the world.

Yes the game is faster in europe, but IMO techincally South America is better, its a fair game, they will not slap around the best team of the libertadores, quito didnt, and they IMO lost a big part of their winning team in guerron. Boca was missing Roman in 07', hopefully in 09 the winner isnt going to be missing their big players....

 

Europe is full of hype.

Lol I remember in the Euro last year they were caling the Netherlands the total football machine...lol besides seriously overhyping a team after a match or two, they haver no idea what they are talking about.

Don't buy into the hype.

 

European clubs are not that better than ours.

 

It's naive to think that the European teams are not that much better than the South American teams. I do think that the play has become more level in recent years, but only São Paulo and Boca have consistently fielded teams that can compete head-to-head with the European powerhouses.

The World Club Championship takes place in the middle break of the European season, and most of those clubs don't prioritize that competition because it is not as financially viable for them, nor do they want to risk losing their players, who cost them a fortune. I think that's the main reason why those games have been so close to begin with.

 

Se olvidaron que a la Estrella Roja le quitaron todas sus copas?

There is no way any South American team can compete with an English Premier team. We may compete with Italian, German, Portuguese, Chekz, French, and maybe perhaps even with Spaniards. But against English teams?
I hardly doubt it any South American Team can compete with the intense and the fast revolution of the Premier players.

Yes, is true some Latin American players are quite doing good in the Premier, but most of them had to adapt in other leagues first.

Even do I think Chelsea and Barcelona might have a pretty good chance to the finals, but I think who will win the Champeon League will be Porto. =)

 

Argentine soccer fan, if you would kindly open up a thread on UEFA vs CONMEBOL clubs, I can guarantee you that I will explain the phenomenon on the "UEFA" clubs to a much better sense then you have. You are in the right direction but you are not striking gold.

The reason I am asking this is because I don't want this thread to get off topic from its real purpose which would be the group stage of the Copa Libertadores.

Trust me...you will want to hear my answer on this.

Give us a link here once you do so. Everyone is open to take apart my analysis any way they want.

 

You are buying too much into the hype.

 

EXACTLY! Well said. Even though they cant compete financially, the one thing the big clubs in south america have over europe is talent in the youth levels, they constantly keep finding tevez's, gago's, riquelme's, through Bocas or other youth clubs (arg. jrs), and will always be strong clubs not because of money but because of hidden talent in the land.

Europe is overrated, the 6million dollar roster of LDU was giving the 42+million Euro Roster of Man U a run for their money! 1-0 aint shit!

 

I think the top Brazilian teams can compete with any European powerhouse in the world.