Pre-match: Copa do Mundo 2018: Brasil vs. Costa Rica, 22 de Junho de 2018

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Century's Best, Jun 17, 2018.

  1. tpmazembe

    tpmazembe Member

    Jun 13, 2002
    The Midfield (S.Fla)
    Great win, much better second half performance.

    Very un-Tite like to not do a straight like for like substitution. That Firmino for Paulinho sub left only Casemiro with real defensive duties. He took a risk, and correctly assessed that it was worth the risk against Costa Rica. This would have been suicidal against other opposition.

    He showed something there.
     
    Redshift repped this.
  2. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I thought he played well. Seriously, the ball hasn't gotten to him cleanly. The two chances he had he hit the woodwork and scored a goal but was offsides. His off the ball work rate is also phenomenal. Firmino had a great chance at the end of the game and finished like a donkey. Although he did win the header for the goal.
     
  3. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I still think he can do a better job of holding up the ball. For as much as Neymar has been criticized for the reversed PK, Jesus also had an opportunity vs the Swiss and went down. IMO, that wasn't a PK shout given how things have been officiated up to this point. The irony, however, is that there have been a boatload of PKs in the other games and we still can't manage to get one with our "opportunities."

    EDIT: I have seen a lot of people ask for Firmino to start, but I am nowhere near that point. I just think we can get more out of Jesus other than goals.
     
    Ombak repped this.
  4. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Ronaldo was away for 2 years with near career ending injuries. He scored in the first game vs Turkey in a tight game. And after the 98 episode. He only cried on the field after he subbed off in the Final. :whistling:

    Only difference was the first game we tied and this game went down to the wire.
     
  5. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    That's true ... although Neymar had a clear shot at the goal. His chance was much clearer. Jesus had the defender all over his back ... and I don't think he gets to that ball with a clear shot with the goalie closing it down.
     
  6. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    That's where I am with it as well. We've seen players go through much more on the pitch and in their personal lives without having to burst out in tears on the pitch. I can understand the emotions involved, but I think we can handle them better than we have. If you don't think emotions didn't play a huge role in the 7-1, you are fooling yourself.
     
    MerlinRM repped this.
  7. Redshift

    Redshift Member+

    Dec 14, 2004
    Los Angeles, CA
    Club:
    Corinthians Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    This. Tite chose the non-cowardly option. It paid off directly too because GJ set up the opening goal.

    The Douglas Costa substitution at the half and the Fernandinho substition after the goal were also right on.

    I hope that Tite fixes the problems he correctly diagnosed during the game by tweaking his next starting 11. We can't afford to not have a right-sided attack for 45 minutes of every game.
     
    Estuardo A. Lopez repped this.
  8. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    That is where Tite went wrong in the first game. His subs were poor. They did not make logical sense. Today, he was spot on with the his subs and the gamble of Firmino for Paulinho.

    About the right side, that's what we lost when Alves went down to injury. Willian isn't going to take a man on or make a brilliant pass to open up the defense. Willian basically won the job with Tite because of his work rate to support Alves' runs and attacks. He'll cover for Alves' runs and make accurate passes. Without Alves, there isn't any creativity there. Douglas Costa can provide that, but we do lose the workrate. Fagner or Danilo can not operate the same way Alves was given liberty to do so.
     
    Redshift and tpmazembe repped this.
  9. tpmazembe

    tpmazembe Member

    Jun 13, 2002
    The Midfield (S.Fla)
    Hey Ombak, did you see a shirt pull?

    The reason I ask is that if you did, IMO, he shouldn't have reversed it.

    Had he not called it in the first place I wouldn't be bothered, but he called something he saw. He didn't call Neymar falling because he wasn't calling most of that anyways. So he must have called a shirt pull. To me the replay showed a slight pull, which defender then released very quickly. So the PK should stand.

    Whether the shirt pull was "enough" to break Neymar's offensive impulse becomes subjective, no? The shirt pull is what he called and its a foul.

    Now, if you didn't see the shirt pull on the replay than agreed it should be reversed.
     
    astinus4 repped this.
  10. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I'm not sure what the guidelines are for overturning a call using VAR. In American sports, there has to be clear, conclusive evidence in order to overturn the call on the field -- which is basically what you are saying above. However, if those aren't the guidelines given to the ref, I am sure what was seen on the video was only a slight pull and Neymar's history and embellishment as reasons for overturning it.
     
  11. tpmazembe

    tpmazembe Member

    Jun 13, 2002
    The Midfield (S.Fla)
    Good point about the Willian-Alves symbiosis.

    I think that Douglas Costa worked well because he was a change of pace and for a short period of time. Having followed him the past year his productivity decreases significantly over time. Of course all players are less at end of games than at beginning, but his differential is notable. I think I would prefer him coming off bench in the same manner. Maybe give them each a half.
     
    celito repped this.
  12. tpmazembe

    tpmazembe Member

    Jun 13, 2002
    The Midfield (S.Fla)
    Exactly.

    Q: What did you call? A: Shirt pull.

    Q: Did the replay conclusively show the shirt wasn't pulled?

    The answer can't be "Yes, but Neymar could have continued as it was so minor."
     
  13. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Willian's heatmap today:
    upload_2018-6-22_10-44-31.png

    Douglas Costa's heatmap:
    upload_2018-6-22_10-45-5.png

    As you can see, Willian's position is evenly spread out for the most part. Douglas Costa spent most of the time in attack. Yes, Brazil did dominate in the second half and that contributes to Costa's heat map, but Costa was one of the key reasons why we did.

    For reference, Willian's heat map vs the Swiss:
    upload_2018-6-22_10-46-39.png
     
    samuel_clemens repped this.
  14. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    He did OK coming in. Not convinced he should start. Willian does great defensive work. Not a big deal vs Costa Rica, but against other teams ....
     
    tpmazembe repped this.
  15. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
  16. Estuardo A. Lopez

    Jul 9, 2014
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Pleasantly surprised by Fagner. Him over Danilo, I think.
     
  17. tpmazembe

    tpmazembe Member

    Jun 13, 2002
    The Midfield (S.Fla)
    Agree.

    Although you have to search hard to criticize Coutinho, I still think he doesn't associate enough with right hand side. Perhaps its more an observation. That could just be my perception though.
     
  18. Estuardo A. Lopez

    Jul 9, 2014
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Vast improvement by Neymar. Never pouted. He seemed to get angry, but that's good if it makes you focus and I think as the game moved on Neymar and Brazil gained intensity which eventually led to Coutinho's goal
     
  19. IVO !

    IVO ! Member

    Feb 25, 2009
    RIO AND CHICAGO
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    MY HEART IS NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS WORLD CUP.
    GOD HELP ME !!
     
  20. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Thiago Silva has been really great so far.
     
    Kaka10725 and MerlinRM repped this.
  21. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    In the end it worked. Luckily Costa Rica had nothing on the counter. Good read from Tite. Still it's crazy to have a line up with Neymar, Jesus, Firmino, Douglas Costa. More forwards very often don't work out even in creating scoring chances.
     
  22. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I disagree with your argument that he simply has to confirm whether a shirt was pulled or not.

    The standard is "clear and obvious mistake", I don't see anything that limits the ref to "did he pull his shirt or not?" as opposed to "was it a foul or not?"

    As I see it, in the replay, when Neymar cuts back the Costa Rican player barely even gets a hold of his shirt. Neymar isn't embellishing an obvious foul (which he would still get shit for) he's going down probably counting on the shirt pull lasting and being a real foul.

    There is no sign that anything the Costa Rican player did impeded Neymar in any way and as a result, to me, it's a clear and obvious error to make that call when you see it again and the ref had to overturn it.

    I see the ref forum loved his performance. I think it was an awful performance based on the Coutinho yellow and no yellow for the foul on Douglas Costa (correct advantage though) in the context of that game. It felt like the ref was lashing out and Coutinho got the short end of the stick. Two yellows for dissent and zero for the persistent infringement in the 70 minutes leading up to it is laughable but to be fair to him, he's limited by the apparent directive to hold back on carding. But the penalty reversal was spot on.
     
  23. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I'd say that's not a shirt pull, that's a push. To be honest, technically that's a PK if you think there is enough pressure on the push from the CR defender. He gets beat, sticks his arm out with the sole intention of impeding Neymar's progress. In that situation, just a small push can be crucial in Neymar making to that ball or not before another defender. I know that's typically not a PK, but that's equivalent to a grab.
     
  24. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    @Mengão86 You didn't like that pass from Jesus to Neymar in the "PK" play ? :p

    Great move from Douglas Costa on that play as well through the middle.

    Neymar also visibly can't take a player one on one right now. His first step isn't there.
     
  25. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    That's the thing, I don't think it was anywhere near enough to affect Neymar. I think Neymar's experience told him that contact would be longer and the "cavada" would be backed up by a real foul, but it wasn't (to me).
     

Share This Page