Copa America 2016 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'Copa América 2016 - Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, May 4, 2016.

  1. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Agree with most of your conjecture, but since the 2011 U-20 WC was in S. America, I am sure they
    knew all about him. Not that it might make any difference.

    PH
     
  2. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Wasn't sure where to post this but...

    it seems to me that the refereeing in the European Championship has been palpably of a higher standard overall than in Copa America. Reasons for this?
    - Use of AARs and (potentially) goal line technology
    - Some teams in Copa America really are more difficult to referee
    - On average, more experienced referees of "big" games in the European Championship

    Thoughts?
     
  3. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    This has already been mentioned. It is not often that we get the chance to do a daily
    side-by-side comparison.

    Not so much your 1st item, but 2nd & 3rd are true.

    -Better instruction and training. Better organization of referee programs. CONCACAF's is a mess.
    -More money. A lot of CONCACAF's money and (maybe CONMEBOL's also) has gone in to the bank accounts of the crooks that used to run it and are currently under indictment.
    -Also it is only one Confederation.
    -Teams that play good football and refrain from play-acting (as much) and other tantrums. Better discipline and behavior.

    PH
     
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  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Country:
    United States
    Don't discount familiarity as a factor.

    As an example for those that didn't see it, Kuipers stood halfway down the tunnel, rather than at the exit, to greet every player as he came down to lineup. Several shared brief hugs with him and one came back after he walked by to seemingly share a joke. I'm talking about guys like Lewandowski and Muller mainly, but he appeared to greet every player and every player seemed to know him.

    Taking control of UCL games regularly to hone skills is one thing. But perhaps the more important factor is it makes referees like Kuipers colleagues of these star players. The players expect to see him and Rizzoli and Clattenburg and Brych and others. They know who they are and know what they get from them. No such familiarity and no such expectations exist in Copa. When you add that to everything written above, you see why there are big differences.
     
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  5. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Well, it also helps when your photo has been on the front of the FIFA edition of the LOTG. But yes, these refs are celebrities as well.
    I think there was time in CONMEBOL and even CONCACAF when some referees were like this. Roberto Wright (WC 1990) used to do TV commercials in Brazil, and Mario Rubio, who sent off Maradona in WC 1982, did them in Mexico.
    I could be wrong, but I don't think anything like this occurs these days.

    PH
     
  6. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Country:
    United States
    On the subject of Marrufo, @coreyrock has been active on twitter since the conclusion of the group stage. This gives me the impression that the crew's obligations to the tournament have been fulfilled.
     
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  7. FL.lurker

    FL.lurker Member

    Feb 2, 2016
    I think the gringo factor also player in. When almost all of the teams speak Spanish and almost all of the referees speak Spanish as a first language, why throw in the "handicapped" referee?
     
  8. Albiceleste2010

    Albiceleste2010 Member+

    Watford
    Argentina
    Jun 5, 2010
    Watford
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Country:
    Argentina
    Refereeing in general in CONMEBOL is appalling most of the time. Referees have even less consistency than in UEFA and make decisions on what seem to be personal whims.
     
  9. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    This is not a significant factor at this level. Anyway, how do you know how much Spanish Geiger speaks and understands?
    There have been several US FIFA referees in the past who took the trouble to learn some Spanish, and who could referee Spanish-speaking teams quite well. Most of of the big teams in CONCACAF are from Spanish-speaking countries so this is not that unusual.
    In any event, the players are always glad to talk to the referee in English!
    Look at the Euros for example. You can see the referee who speaks his own language talking to a player who speaks a different language. The conversation is in English!

    PH
     
  10. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Country:
    United States
    Stay tuned to this thread. Surprises are coming.
     
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  11. Fanison

    Fanison New Member

    May 8, 2012
    USA vs ARG: Caceres (PAR)
    COL vs CHI: Aguilar (SLV)
     
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  12. CornellBigRed

    CornellBigRed Member

    Apr 29, 2008
    Rye Brook, Westchester
    Country:
    United States
    Nearing the end of the tournament I am left thinking we did not get to see enough of any referee. I think too many referees were tapped for this tournament and there were not enough games for them all. The Euros have a two group game guarantee for each referee apparently and that would be a good starting spot I think for the Copa as well. What are th e opinions here about this topic? Nothing doing or big issue?
     
  13. FL.lurker

    FL.lurker Member

    Feb 2, 2016
    I'll reply to your "no it isn't" with a "yes it is."

    Which game did Geiger get?

    Do the Euros involve 90% of teams/referees sharing one primary language and the rest not?

    Does CONCACAF regularly consider CONMEBOL referees for qualifiers or other events?
     
  14. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    No, the other politics are more significant than the language issue. English-speaking CONCACAF referees have been
    appointed to many matches with both Spanish-speaking teams. Marrufo is fully fluent in both languages; by your idea he should get more matches. What did he get?

    PH
     
  15. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    When?
    There are only two appointments left, one of them essentially meaningless.
    It doesn't look like the Euros are even having a third place match.

    PH
     
  16. bhooks

    bhooks Member

    Apr 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Alright, I'll bite and begin the speculation.

    I have two possible surprises that this user may be referring to. Surprise A, Goal Line ARs are used in the finals (highly unlikely though).

    Surprise B, regardless of which match it ends up being, an american crew will be assigned to whichever match the USA is not participating in (finals or 3rd place).
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Country:
    United States
    A is apparently not happening, after serious consideration.

    B is possible only to the extent that you could see a US crew on the 3/4 game if the US isn't there. So beating Messi helps Geiger. Conmebol will get the final.

    Seems like there were two possible surprises but neither will pan out, unless the surprise referenced is Cacares or which American ARs stayed with Geiger.
     
  18. bhooks

    bhooks Member

    Apr 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Definitely still a possibility. Corey Rockwell still tweeted about being busy with Copa America. Not sure if refs still have required training or other events even after they are done, but it appeared he may not be done with his work there.
     
  19. Fanison

    Fanison New Member

    May 8, 2012
    Fedorczuk (URU) for USA vs COL
     
  20. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    I suppose the only real surprise left would be Geiger or Maruffo as the 4th for the final, as a little nod of respect to the host country.
     
  21. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member

    Mar 13, 2003
    NOVA
    Country:
    United States
    I think the surprise intended earlier in the quote was the crew assigned to the US game. I mean, that was pretty surprising for me, because he certainly made a mess of the Mexico game. I was surprised that of all the officials here, they chose the PAR crew for a second game.
     
  22. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Whoopee, I got one right!
    He did very well considering he was initially on the reserve list.

    PH
     
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  23. Fanison

    Fanison New Member

    May 8, 2012
    Lopes (BRA) for ARG vs CHI
     
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  24. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Quelle surprise!!:D

    PH
     
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  25. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Not much more time left for surprises now?
    Maybe your clickbait worked, we all stayed tuned!

    PH
     

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