Pre-match: Copa América de 2019, Semifinal - Brasil x Argentina, 2 de Julho de 2019

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Century's Best, Jun 28, 2019.

  1. IVO !

    IVO ! Member

    Feb 25, 2009
    RIO AND CHICAGO
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Ole Ole Ole !!!!
     
  2. IVO !

    IVO ! Member

    Feb 25, 2009
    RIO AND CHICAGO
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Ganhar é bao.... ganhar da Argentina e muito melhor.
     
    Redshift and celito repped this.
  3. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    Alves has been MOTM IMO
     
    celito repped this.
  4. IVO !

    IVO ! Member

    Feb 25, 2009
    RIO AND CHICAGO
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    He was brilliant, especially first goal he set up. Both goals were beautiful.
     
  5. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    It wasn't.

    Other statistics:

    -The last Brazil vs. Argentina at this stadium ended with a Brazilian win.
    - The last friendly ended in a Brazilian win.
    - The last WCQ match ended with a Brazilian win.
    - The 3 times Brazil and Argentina decided a cup final, Brazil won them all.
    - The last Copa América matchup before tonight (2007 final) ended with a Brazilian win.
    - Brazil has not lost to Argentina in an official match (WCQ or a cup) since 2005.
    - Brazil has 9 wins and 2 draws in Brazil vs. Argentina in official matches.
     
  6. IVO !

    IVO ! Member

    Feb 25, 2009
    RIO AND CHICAGO
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Globo commentators Galvão Bueno and Casagrande seem to agree with you, lol.
     
  7. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Awful game overall. But Argentina are cursed, so, it was enough.

    That Arthur penalty ... we got away with one.

    Excellent match by Dani Alves, Gabriel Jesus, Coutinho at times, but as a collective effort, well short of what it should have been.
     
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  8. SiempreCrema

    SiempreCrema Moderator
    Staff Member

    Deportivo Independiente Miraflores
    Peru
    Feb 4, 2015
    Club:
    Universitario de Deportes
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    Relax, the Mineirao curse is a joke.

    Congrats on winning but it was expected anyways. Brazil don't lose at home.
     
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  9. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    I repped your post in the Argentina forum about this. It is probably best for me not to post there tonight, even if I were to be diplomatic. Space and distance are oftentimes virtues.
     
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  10. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Damn the last time we played a Final in the Maracana was 2013 in Confed Cup Final vs Spain!!
     
  11. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Back from a friend's home where I watched the game, so I couldn't post here during it. Great win! Dani Alves and GJ, unreal performances, men of the match!
     
  12. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Yeah. We weren't good on the counter at all. Dunga's 07-10 would have smashed them on the counter. Been a long time since I've seen Argentina play with their hearts on their boots. We brought out the best in them and they should have tied it up before the 2nd. We were lucky. Tite has his work cut out for him.

    Dani Alves ... man he can still provide some magic.
     
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  13. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    #63 Century's Best, Jul 2, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
    Our neighbors are a peculiar bunch. Like us, they're South Americans who love the game and who feel it... passionately. Perhaps even more than we do.

    But one thing about them is that at least with their NT, they're even more "imediatista" than we are. Scaloni was being blasted for the bad results in the group stage. But he's never had a coaching job, is learning as he goes along, and then when he gets their team to the semifinal, suddenly so very many of them are convinced they will defeat us. The "trident" is going to do it. Messi is overdue for a breakout match. They will repeat 1990 and break Brazilian hearts.

    Alejandro Fantino, a TV sports personality there, said that he had observations based on numerology (seriously); others being personal, and some based on science and technicalities, and he was certain Argentina was going to win. I mean, a Brazilian can go to any Dona Maria of macumba and say the same. It's meaningless.

    You guys should watch some of their sports programs. 4, 8, 10 personalities in the studio begin to talk about soccer. Within minutes they're literally shouting each other down and gesticulating and gesturing. Their Italian origins show through. They know the game, they have their history, but the emotionality they bring to their analyses of the sport is stunning. Brazilians in comparison are tame and reserved.

    As for BigSoccer, some were trash talking us before the match while others were so focused on this match they were all but psyching themselves out. I get it; I prize victories, I love my NT, and I take the rivalry seriously. But at this point, as a middle-aged man, had Brazil lost, I would've been a bit upset, but life goes on.

    Oh well. Odd that people who don't even know each other end up with so much animosity over a soccer game whose players are oftentimes friends outside the stadiums.
     
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  14. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Some on him but also some on the players. At some point they just started missing very easy passes.
     
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  15. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    To all Messi apologists out there:

    Titles won by the Argentina National Football Team without Messi: 14 South American championships, 2 World Cups.

    Titles won by the Argentina National Football Team with Messi: 0. That's right, zero. Nil. Zilch. Nada.

    Like I've said many times, if we were talking Fiji Islands or Andorra national teams, one good player wouldn't make a difference. But it's Argentina.

    Still, NO titles whatsoever. None.

    If he had just a couple of tries without titles, sure, it happens. But Messi has been playing for the senior Argentina national team since 2005. That's 14 freaking years. His balance: zero.

    Yeah, yeah, great club player, no doubt. Period, full stop.

    What did he do in this Copa America? He scored once from the penalty mark. He hit the post once. That's it. No goals other than that one penalty kick. No assists. A couple of explosive dribbles (none as spectacular as what Daniel Alves and Gabriel Jesus did today). That's it for the entire tournament. Today he was OK. In other games he was a ghost, a shadow, did nothing. No stamina, no energy, no leadership - and he's supposed to be the captain.

    At this time, Messi is only well regarded by pundits and commentators when he plays for his national team, because he is Messi. If the exact same plays or lack thereof were done by some other no-name player, nobody would have paid any attention to such player. Messi wasn't even the best player for his team throughout the entire tournament.

    Imagine the final note and comments if the same performance had been done by some guy named, say, Angel Deleon. "Very irregular throughout the tournament. Disappeared completely in many games. Scored once on a PK. No assists. In the rivalry game against Brazil, was slightly better, hitting the post once and producing a couple of dribbles. Overall, rather useless; a score of 3 out of 10."

    Because he is Messi, people say instead "he wasn't helped by his companions, but did have several moments of genius." No. It wasn't like that. Actually his companions played better than he did, especially in the last couple of games, against Venezuela and Brazil.

    Another failure, Lionel. Go back to Barcelona where you belong. You're just a club player.
     
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  16. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    A lot of statistics have been thrown around, but here's a intriguing one.

    Much is often said about how Argentina won the Copa América 14 times vs. Brazil's 8 titles. Factually speaking, this is correct.

    However, from 1916 to 1959, Argentina won the tournament 12 times. In the past 60 years, Argentina has won it twice - 1991 and 1993. For perspective, Brazil won the Copa América twice in a 40-year period: 1949 to 1989.

    Since 1989, Argentina won it twice, while Brazil won it six times, with 4 titles in 5 editions and 2 back-to-back titles, and 3 of those 4 wins included victories over Argentina, either through PKs or regulation.
     
  17. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member+

    Jan 19, 2013
    LOL, as an Argentino this was spot on.
    A great clasico, unfortunately ruined because the poorer team won but it's not like we haven't had our luck in the past.
    Good luck to you against Chile - you will need it.
     
  18. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member+

    Jan 19, 2013
    If Messi was Brazilian, he would have 4 tournaments and be considered best of all time.
    Understand variance. Understand teams.
     
  19. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    Thank you. Hopefully we will do the job without needing PKs. The Chileans showed vs. Colombia how well they do in PKs - something your team experienced twice in recent time.
     
  20. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member+

    Jan 19, 2013
    Yes, think it has to do with demographics and economics. The world changes.
     
  21. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member+

    Jan 19, 2013
    Chile plays like Argentina did in this *one* match. Extremely intense pressuring all over the field for a full 90'. They must be on dope. Thought they were clearly the better team against Colombia. We gave you some trouble in this match so I think you will have your hands full with them.

    I'm kind of ambivalent cause I don't want to see Chile win 3x in a row. They're a fun team with a nice style but they don't deserve 3 in a row. I'll be rooting for Los Incas.
     
  22. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    Actually, no. Brazil didn't participate in several tournaments in those days, and then when it became a regular participant, it became a major protagonist in soccer.

    If economics was key, then your country should not have the players it has.
     
  23. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    You mentioned the world changed. There are controls for drugs now which weren't around then. Chile is not on drugs.

    Chile deserves credit for its recent accomplishments, but their style of play is not to bunker against us like Venezuela or Paraguay did. They may well go forward as you did, but your team did so because your manager deployed an offensive formation with the hopes of an early goal as per your quarterfinal result. But Brazil has one of the world's best defenses, and Chile will have their hands full.

    Chile doesn't deserve three in a row? "Deserving" is a highly abstract and subjective concept in soccer; as an Argentine, you'll never admit Brazil deserves to win anything. If Peru loses tomorrow and Chile goes home with second place, you'll probably say Brazil didn't deserve it. I get it. Hopefully, Brazil will win, whether it's Chile or Peru.
     
  24. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member+

    Jan 19, 2013
    Ok, I don't know much about pre 1990 football. But I do see that Brazil had a population explosion during the past 50 years. Also Argentina has been on a long downwardly mobile path.
     
  25. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    Uruguay's population - do you know what it is? And yet Uruguay went to the 2010 World Cup semifinal and it won the 2011 Copa América.

    "Long downardly" path - not sure what you mean by this, but despite that path your team reached 3 finals in 3 years. Had you won them all, I speculate you wouldn't mention economics whatsoever.
     

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