Containment zone: the Klinnsman / Donovan fault line

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by DHC1, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sounds like we remember it the same... Belgium was embarrassing for us but we were still in a position to win and Wondos mess up was unfortunate.

    I believe the injury was after the line ups were locked and we couldn’t have made a change if we had wanted to.

    Take a look at some of the comments BSKY22 posted. That’s not constructive, that’s petty. JKs entire tenure has many mistakes and issues throughout it. The results in the 14 WC were not one of them.
     
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  2. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes there’s room for criticism for any coach that doesn’t win it all but JK got very favorable results in the WC with the overall talent we had in the group we had. Whether you like it or not there are justifiable reasons that he left off LD. The vast majority of us would have taken him but he made a call and got favorable results. LD was petty, that’s justifiable too but doesn’t change the fact that he was petty.
     
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  3. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Plenty of Americans went to Europe despite Donovan's career priorities. Why couldn't a wave of kids be inspired by Friedel or Dempsey? Heck, didn't Adams have kind words for Adu recently? And at the moment CP's most notable achievement is a monster transfer fee. I'd hold off on describing him as "transformational" until we see if he actually makes it at Chelsea. He's on pace for something special per the American norm, but nothing is guaranteed. Things go badly and suddenly we're talking a notable American flop.
     
  4. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    hahaha... you guys are funny. You think Donovan is a god but CP is an unproven, low IQ, system player.

    Yep, CP has already been transformational. CP has been the catalyst for Bundesliga teams signing tons of american kids.

    Flop? Is that how you view Donovan? CP is already more talented than LD. It would be very disappointing if he didnt make it at Chelsea and decided to throw in the towel and come back to dominate MLS.
     
  5. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Wow, you got all that out of "nothing is guaranteed." Your negative obsession with Donovan is pretty funny.
     
  6. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Nope... that is why I wrote "you guys".

    I'm not obsessed with LD at all. Incorrect interpretation.
     
  7. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    I never said Donovan was god. The post you quoted of mine was specifically praising guys not named Donovan. I also didn't say that Pulisic was low IQ and unproven. There's a difference between that degree of negativity and having a wait and see approach to his future at Chelsea.
     
  8. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How so? I have not made one argument based on feelings.


    Johanson was carrying a hernia that he admitted hindered his training. The excuse for cutting Donovan was that we needed fit players.
     
  9. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That was one of a few reason why he might have left him off. Johnanasson injury also wasn’t aggravated or an issue until they were actually at the World Cup and couldn’t make a change. So that’s mute. But you’re clearly missing the point I’m making. No need to continue.
     
  10. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think CP has really opened the BL doors for American kids. If he never kicked another ball,he's had an impact.

    I don't get why people are using MLS as a demerit against LD for Brazil selection. We rostered lesser MLS players,Mixx and youth playing Green.

    In the end.

    Klinsmann didn't do anything special for the USMNT as a manager. He picked uninspired rosters and often played like a minnow. The USA won one World Cup game under Klinsy. He has a history of being laughed at by his players. The only impressive performance of his career was with Loew on staff. That doesn't buy a lot of benefit of the doubt from me.
     
  11. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Arjo was hurt in March. Klinsmann took an injured guy that wasn't training well.It's all a bad joke.

    While his effort wasn't ever in question, his play in that game seemed slightly diminished. In March, his ankle began to trouble him. He calls it an "overuse injury" having to do with an "extra bone" in his ankle. That sounds bad, but he could play on it. AZ wanted him to have an operation right after the season, but they allowed him to postpone it for the World Cup.

    "When we came into [World Cup] pre-camp, it was kind of like going into pre-season again with my team. Because, you know, we have to work hard, and we have to be in our best shape, and so it was a little bit ha
    rd.

    https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/yp74ag/aron-johannssons-injury-hell-is-finally-over
     
  12. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    #162 OWN(yewu)ED, Feb 11, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
    Bacon, Brad Davis, and Mix had about as much business being named to the roster as Kerry Zavignan, Santino Quaranta, and Kenny Cooper; and provided about as much utility as the aforementioned. It literally defies logic this is still a debate. its solidified, cemented historical fact at this point. Its like denying the holocaust existed or that climate change isnt real. There is just so much overwhelming evidence to the contrary that it is now "i dont want my kid to get vaccinated, and thats my choice".

    As is it evidenced by Klinsmann's inability to coach equated by him STILL being unemployed (and soon to be his brat as well); thats not a coincidence. The damage done couldnt have previously been imaginable, and no one could have estimated the cost done to our program through all that wasted time of playing players out of position and calling up players like Miguel freaking Ibarra to do, well, anything other than crap on MLS
     
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  13. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @OWN(yewu)ED

    Harsh but fair. I too am applying Occam's Razor, it's more likely that a bad manager just made bad choices on his own than that he was forced into it by a secret mutiny.
     
  14. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    According to Klinsmann a reason he's unemployed is because he only wants a job with a likely World Cup semifinalist. He said he turned down multiple inquires before the World Cup because the teams' main goal was surviving the group, and that's no longer enough for him after coaching the U.S. I still think he was good for us overall, but ironically I also think he's a bit comfortable and entitled, and not very interested in proving he deserves another shot at the top.
     
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  15. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    The first paragraph was directed at the collective group of LD fans. They wont accept any critcism of LD (which is why they can grasp why a coach wouldnt have wanted the 2014 version of him on his team) and yet hold CP to a standard that LD would have ever met.

    The other two were specifically directed at you. CP has already been transformational and dont see why anyone would suggest he could become a "notable American flop".
     
  16. iad_22201

    iad_22201 Member+

    Jan 2, 2009
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  17. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    50/50,

    What's your take on Nagbe and ATL? Should the coach be willing to get rid of him?

    "Doug Roberson of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported that the 28-year-old arrived a day late to the team’s preseason training camp in Los Angeles. That coupled with his noticeable lack of involvement with the first team preparing for the Concacaf Champions League cast doubt over the player’s status in Frank de Boer’s squad."
     
  18. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    You don't see why? Seems pretty simple to me. No American has moved for that type of money, and in turn no American has faced that type of pressure. And thus far CP has not proven to be a vital player for his current team. I hope he succeeds but at this point I'm not going to ignore the possibility of a scenario where Chelsea doesn't quite work out for him and various fans and media outlets react badly to buying him for that fee.
     
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  19. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Clubs are different from the USMNT. I don't care what they do. My biggest interest in that team is the development of USMNT players.

    Nagbe is 28, I think he's pretty close to a finished product, at times he can be useful.
     
  20. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    It wouldn't be good if CP didn't break into the rotation at Chelsea and slid all the way down to the lower end of the major leagues.
     
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  21. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  22. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    It's open for any and all business. What I really meant it for is to move all discussions from other threads and post them here. To the extent that some of the discussions are germane to other threads, like some of your comments wrt to JK vs. GB, I think they belong in that thread but just mentioning JK is like bloody chum in eel-infested waters - it almost immediately and inevitably goes askew.

    FWIW, I don't think there's any new ground to be covered on this topic at all.
     
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  23. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only thing this added for me is that I didn't realize that ArJo was hurt and in need of surgery ahead of the Cup.
     
  24. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Painful conditions that you play on are part and parcel of a professional athlete.

    Jermaine Jones (sports hernia), Beckerman (toe injury), and MB90 (foot nerve damage) also had similar painful nagging injuries that they played on that required surgery post cup.

    Lets not forget Donovan himself was nursing a chronic knee problem that had plagued him for the 9 months before the WC2014 camp, caused him to miss the last 4 USMNT matches in 2013 and he said caused him to not be sharp in the Mexico April 2014 camp and friendly.

    He once again shot down reports that he and Klinsmann were at odds over his self-imposed sabbatical in 2013 and insisted he’s still one of this group’s fittest players, despite a lingering knee issue that he said was “doing okay” when he arrived on campus last week.

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2014...ys-hes-no-longer-lock-make-final-usmnt-roster
     
  25. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Jurgi got a golden parachute big enough to watch the sunsets from his home in Newport Beach while drinking margaritas for the rest of his natural life.

    In short, we did the soccer world a solid by virtually retiring the guy.
     

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