Conmebol Friendlies Pt. IV (R)

Discussion in 'CONMEBOL' started by mcruic, Dec 4, 2010.

  1. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    If there is anyone simple minded here, it is only you.
    I'm Chilean, and actually I care very little on how Paraguay performs under one or another coach. Objectively, he has had the best performance Paraguay has ever had in all its WC participations, so I believe that any negative criticism on the man, should be done on light of his achievements as well. If you want to insist on it, well, go ahead, but as a foreigner, all I can tell you, it is that it's annoying to read it.
    At the end, he is your coach, not mine.
    :p
     
  2. zasal911

    zasal911 Member

    Sep 1, 2000
    seems to me that Martino has done a pretty good job...

    its easy to criticize particular decisions etc etc etc....but at the end of the day the results are clear: Paraguay finished well in the WCQ and did well in the WC

    and in terms of play, while Paraguay have never had the most exciting soccer style, i'd say that no one played Spain as well as Paraguay the entire WC....you kind of have to be somewhat satisfied by that
     
  3. Latin Pride

    Latin Pride Member

    Aug 1, 2004
    In your house
    Club:
    Olimpia Asuncion
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Really? I'm simple minded, how so? Because I'm not on Martino's nut sack just because he went to the quarterfinals? But because I look more in depth into that and see that his tactics don't work?


    Yeah a 0-0 draw against New Zealand, and 0-0 vs Japan is an amazing performance. It was all about the luck of the draw. If Paraguay had drawn a Germany or a Holland instead of Japan it would have been another exit at the round of 16 and nobody would have hailed Martino as a hero.

    As I have done before, do I think he's a bad coach? no, but do I think he makes bonehead moves and is persistent with them? You damn right. You can be a great coach but if your stubborn with decisions that obviously aren't working for your team then you ain't going anywhere.


    No ones forcing you to read it, I don't try to educate you on your team, don't try to educate me on mines. I think I know a little bit more about Martino then you do. And "As a foreigner" all you know about him is that he's the guy that took Paraguay to the quarterfinals.
     
  4. Latin Pride

    Latin Pride Member

    Aug 1, 2004
    In your house
    Club:
    Olimpia Asuncion
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    That I agree with, and if Martino had used Barrios instead of Cardozo who was useless in the entire cup and Vera instead of the bench player Victor Caceres they might have even won it.

    And that's exactly what I mean by a good coach with bonehead decisions.
     
  5. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Hey man, this is an open forum. If you don`t like what others tell you, don`t post anything at all. You started calling others as "simple minded", so I treated you the same way. Annoying ?, sure. Then try to be more respectful to others next time, if you don`t want to be treated likewise yourself.

    Exactly.
    And no one else before him, did.
    :p
     
  6. MetroChile

    MetroChile Member+

    Jan 13, 2001
    NJ; Valpo.
    Club:
    Santiago Wanderers
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    I am asking this honestly and not as a "jerk" but for instance, are these changes something you--or the public in Paraguay in general--hoped for before the games were played? Or something along the lines of he should've used those players "after the fact" (meaning: after the games were played)? It's easy to call out wrong decisions after they're made and again I am not asking this in a rhetorical manner.

    As an example, last year I called Bielsa out :)p) on using Marco Estrada as a starter vs. Spain. He'd had a shitty year in terms of performances and was clearly out of match fitness: something that most people failed to recognize. As you probably remember, he got sent off and when he was on the pitch, he was awful. Not that 11v11 we would've beaten or even tied Spain but I think you get the point/picture.
     
  7. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Unlike Brazil. Argentina, Uruguay and even Chile, Ecuador and Colombia, Paraguay lacks a large pool of international class players.

    El Tata Martino needs to use the friendlies to test players in vital positions where there are few alternatives.

    So he must take the friendlies as a chance to find the man that works best in a given position, instead of testing an already-established team.

    Reason why the Paraguay friendlies are often sad affairs (for Paraguay).

    All in all, el Tata is a good coach (IMO --perhaps even excellent), but it still grates me when the Guaranis lose games against the likes of Qatar or get goleados by the Mexicans.
     
  8. Latin Pride

    Latin Pride Member

    Aug 1, 2004
    In your house
    Club:
    Olimpia Asuncion
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Maybe you should have held off the sarcasm by insinuating that I didn't feel like the quarterfinals where enough.

    What is also annoying is coming to a conclusion what someone is saying without making sure exactly what they mean. :p

    Well everyone including myself is pretty fed up with Cardozo, Cardozo may do great things with Benfica but he has shown time after time again not to work with the NT and has pretty much done squat in there and yet constantly gets called up.

    As I said before it was inexcusable to start Cardozo over Barrios against Spain.

    Also using the 4-3-3 formation clearly has failed to work for Paraguay and not only does Martino keep using it but putting in midfielders (Martinez) as forwards.

    I think the difference between Bielsa and Martino is that and correct me if I'm wrong Bielsa corrects his mistakes, Martino on the other hand insists with them.

    As far as players called for the World Cup, he pretty much called everyone he should have called, he just didn't utilize those players correctly.
     
  9. Latin Pride

    Latin Pride Member

    Aug 1, 2004
    In your house
    Club:
    Olimpia Asuncion
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    And that's perfectly fine, but when you keep trying the same thing over and over again after it has been proven not to work that's where the problem lies.
     
  10. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    According to your post, you clearly disregarded him as being the architect of your team reaching quarterfinals in the WC. The least a statement like this deserves, is a little bit of sarcasm, as it also disregards all of those who achieved a lower performance in the WC.

    Well in that WC, he started with Barrios (whom you praise) in his first two games against Italy and Slovakia, and in both games he was a complete failure and didn`t even really proved to be worthy as a striker for your team (although that at club level, in Colo Colo, my team, he was awsome). Against New Zeland, he also used Barrios in the second half, and failed. Against Japan, Barrios played the whole game, and once again failed to score. With Barrios achievements in the four prior games, no wonder he didn`t use him against Spain. I would`ve done the same, also considering whom you had to face in that instance, also considering that you almost had Spain on the ropes for long passages of that game.

    Besides you disregard your draws with New Zeland and Japan. "Weak" New Zeland, also had draws with Italy (as Paraguay did) and Slovakia, so in the WC they weren`t such a weak team. On the other side Japan, beated cleanly Cameroon and Denmark, losing by one goal to Netherlands, so they too were formidable opponents. As Guri told you, with lots of sarcasm related to his own team, but with lots of truth, Martino, despite of what you think, did an excellent job with the team he had in hands. I believe that with another coach, you even wouldn`t have passed the qualifiers as you finally did, specially after the series of injuries that had your team in total decay in the last round of those qualifiers, but this we will never know for sure.
    :)
     
  11. Dan-ny-m398

    Dan-ny-m398 Member

    Aug 25, 2004
    Long Island NY
    Club:
    Olimpia Asuncion
    Nat'l Team:
    Paraguay
    I dislike tacuara as much as any Paraguayo but if you look back at the WC Lucas Barrios didn't do much in the WC either, also a lot of players just choked in the WC for example Morel who didn't help on offense once and it really wasn't Martinos fault that useless Tacuara missed the penalty kick, yes he put him on the field, but he came through the game against Japan and Lucas was nowhere to be found in most of the games he played and believe it or not Tacuara was having a good game until he missed the penalty kick, so I don't blame Martino for that if tacuara would have kick the ball 20 inches more to the right , we would have built a statua of Martino and Tacuara in the main cathedral of Asuncion.

    Overall I think we are lucky to have Martino, he could have gone to Qatar or any other team for triple the money he is making in Paraguay and we could end up back with Manio Ruiz or some other useless coach like the ones before him.
     
  12. guri

    guri Member+

    Apr 10, 2002

    Sarcasm? moi?

    I say count your blessings, paraguasho/2
     
  13. guri

    guri Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    Mirando Peru-Ecuador.
    Se ve bien Peru, es un nuevo equipo, ordenado, con marca, ya se nota el trabajo de Markarian.
    Si lo dejan trabajar, y agregando a Farfan y algun otro, este cuadro va a dar que hablar.
    Cuidadito eh?
    Como si las eliminatorias no eran ya dificiles, hay que agregar otro candidato mas
     
  14. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    A este ritmo, todos vamos a estar sufriendo por clasificar al mundial hasta la última fecha de las Eliminatorias
     
  15. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Hay seis cupos esta vez. O, bueno, 5.5.

    Sólo Bolivia anda muerto.
     
  16. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Brasil ya tiene uno.

    En cuanto a Bolivia, en una de esas nos sorprende a todos y termina ganando las eliminatorias y Venezuela sale segunda.:D
     
  17. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Bueno, son siete por cinco.

    Argentina, Chile, Paraguay, Uruguay, Ecuador, Peru y Colombia se la pelean.
     
  18. JAIME CHILE

    JAIME CHILE Member+

    Apr 26, 2006
    V.Alemana y Stgo
    Club:
    Cobreloa Calama
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Últimos amistosos de marzo:

    Guatemala-BOLIVIA 1:1
    Gol de Pedriel.

    PERÚ-ECUADOR 0:0 (en Holanda)

    COLOMBIA-CHILE 0:2 (en Holanda):)
    Goles de Fernández y Beausejour.

    Irlanda-URUGUAY 2:3
    Goles de Lugano, Cavani y Hernández.
     
  19. MetroChile

    MetroChile Member+

    Jan 13, 2001
    NJ; Valpo.
    Club:
    Santiago Wanderers
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Defensivamente, Chile tiene mucho que mejorar: en el ataque no hay muchas preocupaciones. Y eso que hoy no estaban Valdivia ni Suazo.

    Lo de Colombia es endémico: la falta de gol, o para ser más preciso, la falta de finiquito.
     
  20. Latin Pride

    Latin Pride Member

    Aug 1, 2004
    In your house
    Club:
    Olimpia Asuncion
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Yeah but just to tell you a thing about Tacuara.

    Barrios: 4 goals in 11 games for Paraguay

    Tacuara: 4 goals in 33 games for Paraguay

    and atleast Barrios tries, Tacuara just stands there dumbfounded like he's never stepped into a field before.

    Neverless I will be watching tonight's loss...I mean game.

    What can I say, soy masoquista :eek:
     
  21. Dan-ny-m398

    Dan-ny-m398 Member

    Aug 25, 2004
    Long Island NY
    Club:
    Olimpia Asuncion
    Nat'l Team:
    Paraguay
    I guess, I don't want people to think I don't hate tacuara so I just leave it at that, and I'm not looking forward to tonights game, I hope after this no one wants to play us anymore so we won't be embarrass time after time in this meaningless matches.
     
  22. Latin Pride

    Latin Pride Member

    Aug 1, 2004
    In your house
    Club:
    Olimpia Asuncion
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Dude just look at the starting squad tonight, it's already over. lol
     
  23. JAIME CHILE

    JAIME CHILE Member+

    Apr 26, 2006
    V.Alemana y Stgo
    Club:
    Cobreloa Calama
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Estados Unidos-PARAGUAY 0:1
    Gol de O.Cardozo.

    Jugando el 1er tiempo:

    Costa Rica-ARGENTINA 0:0
     
  24. MetroChile

    MetroChile Member+

    Jan 13, 2001
    NJ; Valpo.
    Club:
    Santiago Wanderers
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    So much for that: 0-1 @ USA and guess who scored. :eek: :eek:
     
  25. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Paraguay is back. Once they score the first goal, breaking them down is almost impossible. Good showing.
     

Share This Page