ConIFA/ConIFA World Football Cup 2018

Discussion in 'Real Salt Lake' started by irondeepbicycle, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Has to be said here, as someone who lived in Utah for about 15 years, I was always impressed that July 24th (Pioneer Day) was a more important holiday than July 4th.
     
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  2. GreenRaver

    GreenRaver Member

    Seattle Sounders FC
    May 31, 2018
    Bothell, Cascadia
    Nat'l Team:
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    #27 GreenRaver, Jun 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
    Many do and increasingly so. You see the Cascadian flag regularly around Seattle, Portland, Tacoma and Vancouver. At Seafair last year I saw more Cascadia flags than American ones and there is not one large scale protest in Seattle, Vancouver or Portland that you don't see Cascadia flags these days, whether is against Trump's policies or Trudeau trying to push an oil pipeline through BC, Cascadia 'Doug" flags are out there.

    That sentiment is why articles like these are written:
    http://www.seattleweekly.com/arts/a-bioregional-declaration-of-interdependence/
    http://www.kamloopsthisweek.com/news/cavers-caught-in-controversy-for-cascadia-tweet-1.23264708
    https://www.seattlemet.com/articles/2017/5/15/could-a-cascadian-secession-actually-be-a-thing
    https://crosscut.com/2016/11/cascadia-a-sanctuary-for-immigrants-those-terrorized-trump
    https://www.ozy.com/2016/how-the-west-coast-could-dump-trump/74001

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    You can't dismiss them they are the very reason nations themselves exist. You perhaps were taught in school that America is the exception to this rule but it's not. The definition of a nation state first starts with the state of mind of the people who inhabit it. The Montevideo Convention states only that a nation: "should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states."

    a) We've had a permanent population for the last 10,000 years (at least)
    b) Our territory is defined by the bioregional map:

    [​IMG]

    c) Our governments are intact and often at odds with Washington and Ottawa
    d) We negotiate as best we can relations with other places within the limits of the law. Quite often the federal law undermines such relations to our region's detriment (ie: tariffs, immigration bans, etc)

    Note that the Montevideo Convention definition of nation says nothing about sovereignty. England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales are all nations which have independent FA's in FIFA in the United Kingdom. There is no reason why in non-FIFA football we can't have FA's from Cascadia, Quebec, California, Navajo, Creole and Texas in North America.

    Eric Wynalda even endorsed the idea of having regional teams as beneficial in scouting talent. You do realize there are something like only 16 scouts for US Soccer. In England a club might have 16 scouts for the area around London alone!

    [​IMG]

    While some people would prefer Cascadia were its own thing it doesn't have to be not one nor the other, as the video I posted above mentioned, one can have dual identities. In that video you'll find that many people from Matabeleland identify as Matabele and Zimbabwean and that's ok.

    For many of us, I'd say most of us we have a greater sense of pride for the region than the US or Canada. Trump and the oil pipeline issue have done a lot to fuel secessionist ideas on both sides of the US/CAN border but again that's not what we're talking about here, nor is that the reason or requirement for having a team in ConIFA. They go to great lengths to say they are not a political organization. They are politically neutral. We're talking about a strong regional identity which people have in addition to being part of whatever larger entity they are (US, Canada, etc).

    Many of us feel that no, the values those in power in Washington represent, crass commercialism, scorched earth environmental policy, faith based rather than reason based approaches to science, does not represent us and again, we have more in common with each other regardless of which side of the US/CAN border we live on than with Washington, DC, or Ottawa, ON.


    It's a place for peoples, regions, nations, de-facto nations who do not feel their identity is represented to represent themselves. It's like an open-source version of FIFA. FIFA tells you who you are, CONIFA asks you who you are.

    We respect the rights of people to be who they are not who someone tells them they should be. We respect the fundamental human right of existence where the US government says certain people are less human and deserving of dignity if not by words, by policy. Again, this is where we have more in common with our neighbors to the north in BC than to the Beltway.

    We respect the Earth in a way the US government does not. We respect place in a way the US government does not. Both have reverence here that is reserved for deities in other parts of the US. Which is why people in other parts of the US make fun of us as being "tree huggers" and "crazy environmentalists" for that reason.

    Perhaps to understand why, it helps to look at the history of the land and peoples who influenced much of how we see the world, those First Nations people who indeed have even given us our unique dialect.

     
  3. GreenRaver

    GreenRaver Member

    Seattle Sounders FC
    May 31, 2018
    Bothell, Cascadia
    Nat'l Team:
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    Nope. Dig futher.
     
  4. GreenRaver

    GreenRaver Member

    Seattle Sounders FC
    May 31, 2018
    Bothell, Cascadia
    Nat'l Team:
    Qatar
    See, that's exactly what I mean. Its a source of pride which has more to do with where you live and probably who you are than July 4. And that's OK. What's not OK is people telling you that's not OK. We may disagree on politics or a lot of other issues but I'd support your right to your identity just as you'd probably support mine.
     
  5. GreenRaver

    GreenRaver Member

    Seattle Sounders FC
    May 31, 2018
    Bothell, Cascadia
    Nat'l Team:
    Qatar
    #30 GreenRaver, Jun 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
    Repped for honesty.

    The fact is the nation has always been sliced and diced it's just that usually those divisions are papered over with a sort of watered down nationalism. One which says, "we may all disagree but at least we're all Americans" without actually understanding what that means in the context of the colonialism it was born from or understanding that we don't treat each part of America the same even under that umbrella.

    Today, all of that has gone out the window not just here but around the world.

    The national narrative in the USA is at odds with the political reality to the point where France should probably request the Statue of Liberty be repatriated.

    The ideas which people are taught that the US is built on, the ideas of social mobility, being a sanctuary for those fleeing oppression, welcoming difference and embracing our diversity are not reflected in current policy and at least half the USA seems ok with that.
    I'm not, most of us up here are not, so best to preserve that in our regional identity even as the national identity falters.
     
  6. 2nd Mouse

    2nd Mouse Member+

    Apr 11, 2012
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did anyone else just hear that? I think it was the sound of Boz's head exploding.
     
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  7. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FYI, I am going to pull all of these posts out into their own thread.
     
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  8. Ivensor

    Ivensor Member

    Nov 10, 2011
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    This VERY tangential to the CONIFA discussion, but I've always found the thought experiment of "how would we divide up the U.S. today if we were making 50 states?" to be an interesting one. This paper uses Facebook friend linkages to do just that (Fig. 4 on p. 13). The basic idea is to divide up all of the counties in the U.S. based on which counties have strong ties to other counties through Facebook friends. They divide the U.S. into 20, 50, and 75 states. I could stare at those maps for a long time.

    Cascadia does indeed show up as its own, unified state in the 50-state version, BTW.
     
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  9. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That paper is amazing... I loved seeing how some states maintained their basic boarder even when the nation was divided into 75 areas. It suggests that for some folks, state level 'loyalty' or 'feeling of being home' is important. A lot of folks are friends on FB with family and with folks they knew in their K-12 school years. So, they are finding those friends typically didn't move out of the state. Also, at the 75 division level, my area of the country finally separates out from the state as a whole, which is how it feels here – separate from the rest of the state, though largely connected due to sports affiliation and history, which is shown at the 50 division level.
     
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  10. Ivensor

    Ivensor Member

    Nov 10, 2011
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    I agree completely. I was really surprised at how strong state borders actually are. I mean, who would have thought that North Dakota and South Dakota don't mix? Not me. Or that the Upper Peninsula of Michigan would still group with Michigan instead of Wisconsin??? Meanwhile, New England is all one clump, united in their hate of New York... :)
     
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  11. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The folks in this neck of the woods who aspire to the State of Liberty (E. Washington and N. Idaho) will be bummed not even to make the set of 75. One thing I get a kick out of in their platform is that they pitch higher education as one of the potential new state's strengths (Univ. of Idaho, Washington State Univ., Eastern Washington Univ., Gonzaga, a couple of smaller private colleges) - without a nickel from Boise or Seattle to help pay for those schools, or their students attending.
     
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  12. El-ahrairah

    El-ahrairah Member+

    Sep 20, 2004
    Wanker County
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cool name for a state, but where would the state capitol be, Coeur d'Alene?
     
  13. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Spokane Valley probably (Spokane itself might be too liberal for the conservative-minded folks behind the imitative).

    Or Lewiston maybe, which was the first territorial capital of Idaho.
     
  14. El-ahrairah

    El-ahrairah Member+

    Sep 20, 2004
    Wanker County
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My choice would be Orofino.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orofino,_Idaho
     
  15. GreenRaver

    GreenRaver Member

    Seattle Sounders FC
    May 31, 2018
    Bothell, Cascadia
    Nat'l Team:
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    #40 GreenRaver, Dec 8, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
    You might want to know, Hawaii just joined CONIFA:


    Also it looks like Josh Doughty and Cascadia will be headed back to the CONIFA World Cup next summer in North Macedonia after playing in a 4 team preparation tournament in London next May:



    Some non-FIFA experts have them as a dark horse to win the 2020 World Cup.

    BTW: If you're serious about Deseret you should get that State of Deseret team together, California is trying hard and now with Cascadia and Hawaii you'd have two "close" members to play:
     
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