Congratulations to Coach Ellis

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by Morris20, May 16, 2014.

  1. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If I recall correctly, Ellis has been reluctant to identify a "formation" the team would play. She appears to have wanted to have lots of interchangeability among the midfielders and forwards, with maybe one clearly identifiable forward and the boundary between forwards and midfielders not that identifiable. To me, this sounded like a very complex approach that would require great player intelligence, flexibility, on-field recognition, and cooperation. And, it wasn't clear to me it would be a successful approach.

    It's taken time to evolve, but maybe it now is working. It explains why only 2 goals have come from "forwards" -- it simply isn't clear who is a forward and who isn't -- since players change from midfielder to forward, from play to play, and from player to player, as the game progresses. Look at where Kelly O'Hara scored her goal v Germany -- she was right in front of the goal line in the middle of the goal. Look at where Abby was on that play as she started it -- she was like a wide mid-fielder. Look at where Carli was. Etc., etc. Who's playing what out there? It seems to me that is a big problem we are creating for opposing teams. They don't know who is going to score the next goal.

    What has matured for this team is that notwithstanding all the interchangeability when on attack, they have been defending really well. The "midfielders" have been getting back and providing a lot of "I've got ball" on defense and when they get passed they're providing a lot of "I've got cover." The participation of the midfield in defense is the most unsung aspect of the team's success so far.
     
  2. Hooked003

    Hooked003 Member

    Jan 28, 2014
    If you mean the outside mids, I agree. But with 2 central mids sitting in front of the back 4, Ellis has 6 of her 10 field players on defense. In that situation, the defense ought to be good, and the offense ought to be poor. Full credit to Ellis, though, for getting to the title game with a defense-centric approach.
     
  3. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree completely, and with the outside mids playing defense as much as they have been, it's 8 of the 10 field players on defense. And, in the China game with ARod's and Alex's efforts at high pressure it's 10 of 10 on defense, and the Germany game reflected some of that too.

    In that context, one might call the offense "poor," but I'd rather call it "just enough." If the defense is perfect and the offense "just enough," that's a winning combo.
     
  4. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    #254 Cliveworshipper, Jul 2, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2015

    With respect to your last paragraph, looked to me like they weren't really playing a formation. It was match ups and being willing to run enough to double every ball.

    They got done what shouldn't be possible with work rate.
     
  5. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with this 100%. It's been almost beyond belief. You and I have watched Rapinoe for years, and to see her work rate in the WWC is absolutely stunning, and she's not alone. These ladies really want to win this thing. Seeing their doubling every ball makes me really happy.
     
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  6. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    A system where such weird and wild things happen is known commonly as "soccer".
     
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  7. fire123

    fire123 Member+

    Jul 31, 2009
    What you guys described is what you'd see with the 4231 when it works.
    This formation may be very defensive for teams who are slow or unfit. The players dont push up agressively.
    With the US, you have the forward, 3 mid fielders up top , sometimes the 4th midfielder and the 2 outside backs constantly move up and down the pitch. It seems we have number on both attacking and defending.
     
  8. Bclay

    Bclay Member

    May 29, 2012
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I haven't rewatched the game for this, but is it possible this was done to up the tempo from the start? Considering Germany was coming off of 120 minutes, increasing the speed of play would definitely be an advantage for the US. Starting off on the front foot could set the pace for the rest of the game, even once you change your tactics (bring Lloyd back into MF). Psychologically it could work out too, if Germany was expecting a more lackluster US side.

    It's a possibility anyway. Could have just been Lloyd being eager to score early on before she realized she was playing out of her position. Like I said, I haven't rewatched it myself to see how intentional it is.
     
  9. SaintNdaCity

    SaintNdaCity Member

    Oct 24, 2012
    Somewhere in the swamps of Jersey!
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except it was Germany who brought pressure high up the pitch into the US zone. For the first five minutes, they were getting two players to the USA player with the ball. Their intent was clear to cause turnovers and get an early goal. But, the USA was sharp at the back... and any turnovers in the 1st five minutes happened at the halfway line or in the German zone. From minutes 5 through 15, Germany still had pressure on USA players with the ball -- but not so high up the pitch. After that, the USA was able to maintain the balance of ball possession, hence DiCicco's obnoxious comment about the USA "Bossing the Game". At that point, the USA simply maintained the pace that had been set early....by the Germans. Regardless of who started it, the result was beneficial for the USA because they had the fresher legs and the deeper team.
     
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  10. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    That is one phrase I would approve of immediate violent death over. It makes me very, very stabby.
     
  11. SaintNdaCity

    SaintNdaCity Member

    Oct 24, 2012
    Somewhere in the swamps of Jersey!
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At the conclusion of this game (and /or the previous game with China), Ellis was asked if the new formation was the reason for victory. And she said, "No, it's the players who made the difference".

    I don't think it was part of some master plan to change the formation. If Rapinoe and Holliday had not picked up their second yellows against Colombia, Jill would still have had a midfield of Rapinoe - LLoyd, Holiday & Heath, and two strikers up top -- a 4 - 4 - 2. She could not continue the square peg in round hole pairing of Holliday and Lloyd.

    So circumstances force her to put in Brian and O'hara -- and suddenly the reality dawns on someone in the staff, that "Hey, Morgan Brian as a true #6 really does make the defense a lot better -- and O'Hara is real threat down the flank. " Having Brian reprise this role against Germany was the right thing to do... but I'm not sold that Ellis suddenly got smart with a new formation.

    What the players did was after the group games, was they finally figured out what this gog-damn turf does. They greatly reduced the number of balls flighted into players and instead the USA started playing balls to each others feet as much as possible. And without an ariel game, that limited the need for Wambach -- even she must realize that she can't run onto balls that much. I'll give her credit for stop the starting of Abby.

    But Ellis can still screw it up sunday.
     
  12. thegreathoo

    thegreathoo Member

    Jun 12, 2015
    yup!
     
  13. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    Not really. Looks like the team won in spite of Ellis, particularly Lloyd, who just put the team on her back for half the tournament.
     
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  14. Germans4Allies4

    Jan 9, 2010
    Great to see the US win!

    But doesn't change my view of much needed changes. Jill and April should not be leading the WNT programs forward and younger players should be involved in the Olympics.....not essential we win it with the Cup in hand.
     
  15. thegreathoo

    thegreathoo Member

    Jun 12, 2015
    Keep on eating it
     

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