Confederations Cup: Mexico vs New Zealand; June 21, 2017

Most crucial games in Osorio era, IMO, have been vs Honduras in Honduras in WCQs, vs Uruguay in CA2016, vs Venezuela in CA2016, vs Chile in CA2016, vs USA in WCQs (Columbus), vs USA in WCQs (Azteca), vs Portugal in CC2017, vs Russia in CC2017 and whomever we may face in the semis of the CC2017 if we manage to go through.

You lot are welcome to draw your own conclusions from these games.

 

Is that you Osorio??

 

Jeez... you remember when the sky was falling?

 

That's exactly right. If it were a normal manager and we had got outplayed and lost even 4-0 or so I would be able to move on. But he's still insisting on bizarre crap like rotating players and formations, playing with a center back as right back always, planning subs beforehand and not adapting to the actual match (!!). He's just bizarre and I'm done with him. I hope he makes me eat all of this and I'll gladly do it, but I think he will be a disaster come the world cup.

 

I was with you man. Who care if we walk qualifying against team like Honduras or Costa Rica. Yes we have won, but when was the last time we won convincingly. It was same tone last year. The attitude was well we won. look what happened when we came upon a team who is actually better than us, no we didnt just lose, we got dismantled and beaten. Everyone said lets see if he changed, and here he is again doing the same thing. Why should we think otherwise? Yes Saturday will tell us everything we need to know, but now his stupid move cost us 1 CB possibly 2. @PARS you said what if we lost 2-1 against chile. If we had played convincingly or well and were simply outplayed or forced errors, its a different story. At the end of the day we lost 7-0. who cares if we walk to the WC. the point is to win the last game right? We arent performing like a TEAM that can contend for that last game. Individual talent will only go so far.

 

Che GOAT

 

Lol, pretending that you don't know who's being played out of position. Salcedo is not a Rightback, Reyes is not a DM, Gio and Fabian are not central midfielders but go ahead and continue pretending that its all the players fault and never the coach's.

We had 4 centerbacks on the field (Reyes, Araujo, Alanis, and Salcedo), 2 wingers (Damm and Aquino), 2 center forwards (Oribe and Raul) and two free roaming attacking mids (Gio and Fabian). Where are the wingbacks and central midfielders?

It's always amazing how certain people can lie to themselves that its never the coach's fault for the team being disjointed and looking like shit because of it. Its clear that you're in willful denial about Osorio just like you were with Chepo. Osorio clearly wants big players on the field and its like an obsession that he cannot deny. That's why we keep seeing so many centerbacks and only one or no wingbacks on the field.

 

I'm assuming that Osorio is an intelligent man. I wonder if he has some sort of mental disorder. He seems to enjoy self-sabotage.

 

@PARS

Do you guys believe a that a team does not have to have a core or team chemistry?

 

Wow

Some wise words coming from Lavolpe. I think the Picante crew should take his advice

 

Video-Análisis: ¿Por qué México sufrió vs. Nueva Zelanda?
https://www.reddit.com/r/LigaMX/comments/6iw507/videoanalisis_por_qué_méxico_sufrió_vs_nueva/

 

you keep bring up these what if scenarios, but I am not feeding into that. facts are we are winning you are correct. When I watch those games though, I can SEE these guys arent clicking, they dont have chemistry. They havent been able to establish trust in each other. Yes we have won against teams who are at our level. When these guy get pressure they will and have collapsed. I am stating that is based on a lack of trusting one another. Concacaf team are all going to changes and dont reflect an accurate representation of true competition. When we confront teams of higher caliber, I fear their flaws will be shown. Its not just rotating players, its rotating formations rotating roles, rotating positions. When are players supposed to establish chemistry? How do they build the trust and understanding of a guy next to him when he might not be in there in the next game? I get it hes experimenting, but when do you stop? Lack of communication and understanding leads to greater errors. Errors that can prove costly ie: getting scored on, or a player getting injured.

His past has given me any reason to believe he will have a new lineup and formation on Sat. IF he comes out with similar team as Portugal, then I would say fine I am wrong.

and just to be clear I am not saying you are defending him. I see a flaw, but people keep avoiding the topic.

 

producers would axe them in a millisecond and add Johnny Rico and @Don Boppero 3000 as the replacements.

 

Thank you for a great response and sharing your observation on how the team is working together. I've been wondering how others see the team chemistry on the field.

 

Salcedo did not play as a right back, he played as a right Center Back in a three man back line against New Zealand. A position he has played before at Fiorentina and with Osorio. I'm guessing you weren't aware of this.

He's also played as RB for Fiorentina and the NT for almost a year now. Whether or not he excels there is a completely different argument but I know your optic is narrow so we won't get into that discussion.

Reyes has played as a 5 for America, Real Sociedad and Espanyol. Again, whether or not he excels there is a different argument altogether but you're approaching these debates with a binary point of view.

If you want to make the argument that Osorio may be hindering Reyes (as a 5) or Salcedo (as a RB) by playing them in less comfortable positions than where they function best, I would not disagree with you. But to present the arguments you did, in the manner that you just did simply shows we view the overall performance of the team differently. Because in my mind, I fully understand why Salcedo is playing as a RCB in a flat back four and Osorio has gone on record about this numerous times. Layun pushes up and the defense becomes a three man backline in transition. This is clear to anyone who has watched Mexico play a 4-3-3 over the past year. Reyes, I'm less sure about as a 5, especially with guys like Gio and Fabian next to him.

Seems like you missed a good portion of my posts over the last few days. Not to mention my criticism of Osorio after the US game at Azteca. I encourage you read those posts and then come back so we can discuss your inability to see beyond your own nose.

The wingbacks? That was Damm and Aquino.

Did you not watch the game? Did you not see Damm and Aquino defending near our 18 yard box when New Zealand push up? Did you not see Fabian and Gio push wide in those instances to cover the space left by Aquino and Damm?

It's obvious you did not read my other posts and I won't rehash those opinions but I will tell you this, the lineup and the tactical set up I was fine with. What I found troubling was the fact that Reyes was left by himself to cover too much ground and Gio and Fabian did not help in that regard.

Simply put, there was no midfield.

You'll have to remind me about Chepo because I frankly don't know what you are talking about. Seriously, it feels like you had to write an essay for school and had to word count turned on on Microsoft Word so you shoved as many half baked complaints into your essay as you could in order to meet the minimum word count.

Not sure what there is to be in denial about when it comes to Osorio. I like the way he works, have never denied it. I criticized him last year during the Jamaica game, during the Chile game. Just last week vs the US and made my thoughts rather clear about his tactics vs New Zealand after the game.

I also appreciate the fact that he recognizes Mexico's weaknesses and has worked to correct them. His goals against record speaks for itself. The amount of goals Mexico has received from set pieces has decreased. The amount of goals Mexico has scored from set pieces has increased. The share of goals scored has been spread out through multiple players, which means we are not simply relying on Chicharito to do work and save our bacon every game.

I see real improvements in the overall shape of the team. You may not see those improvements and that is okay, we can simply agree to disagree.

All you seem to do is disagree with everything just for the sake of disagreeing.

A poor man's Faitelson. Good on you, I guess.

It's a departure from what we saw under Chepo and Miguel Herrera. With the former, the fullbacks were tasked with creating width and look to combine with the wingers. With the latter, the wingbacks were tasked with providing that same width but instead looked to combine with the interiores as they moved into those spaces.

Osorio prefers the width to come from the wide forwards in the 4-3-3 and the wingbacks in the 3-4-3 (Aquino and Damm vs New Zealand). It's a different approach that is meant to exploit one of Mexico's strengths. I'm not entire sure why you have an issue with this, maybe if you did a better job of thinking your opinions through and providing arguments to support them, we'd be have a different discussion.

The bit about too many centerbacks is a bit less clear to me but I see the logic behind it even if I don't agree with it all the time. This approach has lead to a decrease in goals scored against in set plays and an increase in goals for, again, in set plays.

I mean, I seriously don't understand your gripe. It's clear Mexico does not have quality fullbacks at the moment.

We played with Layun and Aguilar as fullbacks vs Chile and got crushed.

All of a sudden it's a problem that the coach took measures to solidify the defense.