CONCACAF U20 Championship: USA v. Honduras, 3/5/17

It sounds like we all agree that Zelalem stands ready and waiting to replace Jose Torres in the USMNT player pool when JFT eventually hangs 'em up.

 

I think people are going to be really surprised with Zelalem.....everyone is taking his current situation at face value and there's more to it. Kid can play....and he's gunna show it, let's all wait and see what happens

 

I'll check some of his latest games and see if his defensive chops have improved.

 

I hear this so much but most of you never got to see him boss the midfield for the U20's. He was the best player on the team in Dallas Cup the game when they played River Plate. I always think of it this way - if I were to swap the poor ba*&t%rd that is forced to play left back with the guy who is playing his regular position how would he look at left back and how would the lucky guy look at his best position? Hence in this tourney Acosta (which must translate from Spanish to English as he who must be punished by playing left back) didn't look great but had some skills that might work out better where he's used to playing. Maybe Adams could have swapped from midfield to LB but who else would have looked good? So don't be too harsh when a manager forces square pegs into round holes and judge players at their best spots don't punish them for being the best at a bad spot.

 

I think in this tournament and against some opponents in the WC finals that is the case but there may be some other teams that Zelalem is a better solution. That's the beauty of a deep pool where a coach can gameplan and rotate players. We're all just not used to that kind of depth.

 

Well, we can't do much more than rate his actual performances (or read the reviews of his performances) in forming an opinion.

 

Playing Acosta as #6 with Hyndman in front of him and putting the kid that eventually played against Serbia as LB would make the team much better, but Ramos bought Zelalem's hype.

 

There is a difference between being good - which Zelalem might be - and being a good fit for the way the US U-20 wants to play stylistically & tactically

Those two might not match

 

No, I think it's more Ramos thought his best lineup was putting Delgado at the #6 and Acosta at LB instead of Acosta as the #6 and Requejo at LB. Requejo then was solid at LB against Serbia after Acosta was red carded the previous game.

 

The solution I see he brings is an outlet to maintain possession and incisive passing to attacking players. That seem a defenite need to me. I wasn't impressed with our attacking in this tournament at all. Outside of beating up on st kitts and Haiti, we scored 2 vs El Salvador, 1 vs Mexico and were shutout by Panama and Honduras. Those three goals wer an EPB header off a corner, Sabbi being put in on a breakaway, and Williamsons amazing strike off a clearance.

Most of attacking chances came from playing it wide and knocking balls into the box and I saw numerous posters talking about how unimpressed they were with the ideas we had going forward. It's not that surprising when you play with 3 dmids. Maybe the offense changes with the addition of akale, etc, but if we have EPB in front of two solid CBs, we don't need a second dmid. Our only potential material weaknesses with all our players is left back and CF. We have plenty of quality players with different styles and think Zelalem is perfect for a setup with a defensive minded dmid like EPB and a pure #10 or three 10/wingers.

 

Here is an every touch video from the fall... there plenty of times he is making defensive plays. I'm very high on Adams, and favor giving minutes to potential, but don't think comes near to offering this all round performance.

 

I haven't given up on Zelalem, whose talent is readily apparent, but I think there's a very real chance that his talent won't translate to the level of play that we hope he can reach.

He has great technique, but technique on its own doesn't matter. It is a means to an end. Right now Zelalem is a CM who is very classy on the ball, but he doesn't have the vision and/or aggressive instincts to use his technique to carve open defenses. He also appears to be a fairly low-workrate player with open questions about his defensive ability.

Something's gotta give. He needs to find a way to push the game at appropriate moments instead of playing it safe OR he needs to add more defensive workrate and bite to his game. (He's not the flyweight that JFT is, so that helps.)

For now, it's what I will call the Tommy Thompson Conundrum. TT is a different type of player, but he's suffered from the same issues. Really eye-catching technique that leads to....nothing. TT showed signs last weekend that he's taking the next step. Zelalem is about 1.5 years younger - I really hope he can find a way to have more "there" there because otherwise it would be an awful waste of some fantastic technique.

The good news for GZ is that he will get many chances over the years because his talent is so alluring.

 

I don't have any idea why we wouldn't want those ball skills on our U20 YWC team. I'm ok with him not being the center of every starting lineup. But can't fathom how this team wouldn't be better with him on the team and playing when we need ball skills through the center of the park. It's not like our offense was very good during this tournament.
We failed to score in 2. Got one on a set piece. And got lucky with terrible GK in the others. Tools in the toolbox. And he gives us something we lack. Ball skills in the MF on the offensive third.

 

Compare this to other players. Williamson, DLT, Saucedo. Others who play in the center. His ball skills will translate more than a hustle guy.

 

This is an excellent description.

 

Problem is we are comparing a guy who was a regular starter for the Arsenal 23s....played professionally in Scotland and has bounced around a lot with some kids who are either still in their youth system, or are barely starting their professional career. I like Adams work rate but this guy can control the field. He and McKinney could be a nasty little combo

 

I'm not saying he should start but he's has a pretty damn good chance, let's not get jaded by what we saw playing against Honduras and El Salvador

 

I wish he was more aggressive taking people on and finishing, but he is a better soccer player than just about anybody we have at this age. I'm not sure what you mean by vision as I think that is actually the strongest part of his game. He has been making crazy passes for the last 4 years that bypasses a number of defenders or puts a guy in on goal. He isn't the best defender and hard into tackles, but what is the basis for being a low work rate player?

This him during preseason making passes against adults. This is a 19.5 yo that lacks vision?



His performances 2 years ago were uneven and was less effective against the tougher/more physical sides, but where is the issue with the workrate?

 

That's not really the history for the U.S. against better competition though. Zardes, as much as I don't like him, proved to have a role. You could use Shea as well, before the injuries and lost confidence. Torres washed out pretty much. If you're the ball skill guy, you have to do that to penetrate defenses, not ball circulate and slow down the efficient build-up before the d gets organized. This is what type of ball skill guy he is. You have to win the ball first before you can possess it. We'd have done that much worse with Zelalem in the middle of the park as opposed to Williamson against Mexico. Then we'd have progressed up the field slower if we were looking for him as a metronome.

Our priority is to beat the top teams in the tourney to make a run, and have an outside chance at winning the Cup. It's not to beat New Zealand, which we should be able to do anyway. Perez, Taitague, and Carleton are ball skill guys who can break down a d better. McKennie, DLT, and Yueill are fine ball skill guys who have greater physical tools and/or defensive bite. And Williamson is a guy with more incisive passing than Zelalem. While he's also fine in terms of touch and dribbling. It's just consistency and simple passing which evades him. But he has more room for improvement than Zelalem who has been a pro for years now, and this is still what he is.

 

I respect your opinions, but you are off here.....Zelalem runs circles around Williamson, it's not really close

 

We also played Mexico + Panama. Honduras made the semis of the last Olympics. That's a good sample.

We aren't playing New Zealand or Myanmar either. And let's not overvalue what we saw in the Scottish 2nd division from a team who was in position to boss those opponents. Don't forget he got benched toward the end of that stint btw. Now he's coming off the bench in the Dutch 2nd. If/when Williamson signs, he can play as much of a role if not more in considerably better leagues.

 

You've lost it lol....it's all good though, I'll be really surprised if Williamson makes the roster

 

Especially for an American, Jose Torres has had an excellent pro career. He has won things with Tigres. For the NT, he did well when used as a possession hub on the flanks or in 3-man midfields. He obviously isn't a box-t0-box mid.

Last U20 WC, Ramos used Zelalem as a possession hub, a role De La Torre filled in this tourney. Most coaches won't take players with such limited skill-sets, but Ramos has shown himself willing to roll with a 'luxury player'.

 

Jose Torres was a possession hub for the U.S. That was the problem. It seldom fit the team's style, so it only worked in finite situations. The team had a horrible record with him in the lineup. Tried him in the Slovenia game in the WC for example and it bombed because the U.S. weren't comfortable enough in sustained possession and then he couldn't defend so they wreaked havoc on us with their counters in the first half.

De La Torre didn't fill that role in the tourney. He played out wide in the last few games and the team was better for it. When he was central and the team was trying to break a bunker, they weren't looking for him as a possession hub, and when he got it he just went. Also struggled in the role. Possesses better defensive chops than Torres, as well as some ability to beat players off the dribble. Not a misfit per se for the U.S.' style then. Just don't think he's that good of player, but not that bad either.