News: CONCACAF Looking To "Overhaul" Qualifying Process

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Sebsasour, Oct 9, 2016.

  1. Sebsasour

    Sebsasour Member+

    New Mexico United
    May 26, 2012
    Albuquerque NM
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This was posted in another thread by @dlokteff but I thought it might be worthy of it's own. CONCACAF's president said he's looking to overhaul the qualification process, specifically in regards to getting the smaller nations more games later in the cycle.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...c33934-8e23-11e6-bc00-1a9756d4111b_story.html

    I do actually agree that it's a bit of a problem that smaller nations in the region can often go years without playing meaningful matches, but from a USMNT perspective it would mean playing a lot more games against minnows
     
    TimB4Last repped this.
  2. FlipsLikeAPancake

    Jul 6, 2010
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think it's a problem at all. Frankly I think the Caribbean should be spun off into their own confederation and get half a World Cup spot. I'm sick of their corruption, and I'm sick of having to deal with playing their crappy teams on their crappy fields.

    We're talking mostly nations with under half a million people. Extending qualifying rounds to involve them more is a waste of time. They are never qualifying for the World Cup. It will just lead to more pointless blowouts.

    The Hex is great. Dismantling it would suck. The best teams should have games to play each other and have the best deserving teams qualify. If we have multiple final groups, then luck and the inane FIFA rankings will be an important factor. Look at Europe, where there is a group with the Netherlands and France are in a group, and Spain and Italy are in another.

    I'm starting to get sick of CONCACAF's garbage. A rebrand isn't going to help things. As long as Caribbean minnows have the voting power to run the confederation, we're going to have to deal with stuff like this.

    Watching the Copa this summer has really made me think. It was a lot of fun. CONMEBOL only has 10 nations. If we left CONCACAF with Mexico and maybe Canada and top Central American teams, sure, qualification for the World Cup would become much, much harder. Probably would miss the World Cup more often than not.

    But we'd have regular quality games in qualifying instead of dealing with all these minnows, and regularly playing the Copa could make up for missing the World Cup on occasion.

    I know it's not going to happen, and there would be drawbacks. South American corruption is just as bad. But at least they bring something to the table - great soccer.

    In my ideal world, maybe we just spin off the Caribbean and have a confederation of 10. We could have an 18 game double round robin qualifying schedule like South America. And maybe more joint tournaments with them. I just am tired of the Caribbean.
     
  3. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting idea.

    As you say, a combined Americas ex Caribbean confederation would have 20 nations. A double round-robin WCQ schedule could work, starting after the presumably combined Copa America (or whatever you want to call it), would need the June prior to the WC to have 4-6 of the games.

    The Caribbean would be left with around 30 teams, which seems workable.
     
  4. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    We already play enough bad teams.

    How does SV&G prepare us for a World Cup?
     
  5. Sebsasour

    Sebsasour Member+

    New Mexico United
    May 26, 2012
    Albuquerque NM
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I think you're pretty much dead on. CONCACAF does very little right, but the current process does a really good job giving a mostly fair route to qualifying with the 10 or so teams that actually have World Cup ambitions and I like that you're not at the whim of a draw for the last qualifying round.

    I think there are teams like Cuba, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, etc. who actually have a decent chance at growth and would benefit from more competitive fixtures but there's better ways to do it. Maybe I'd support something like expanding the semi final round to 16 and having an octagonal but even in the current 12 to 6 system you get matchups like St.Vincent/USA and Mexico/Guyana. You could also look at other things like expanding the Gold Cup to 16 or do what they did in Brazil and use groups in the early qualifying rounds instead of the head to head playoffs they went back to this cycle.

    The truth is teams like British Virgin Islands and Montserrat aren't ever going to be anymore than they are now, and forcing teams like the US and Mexico to travel there for 20-0 wins doesn't help anybody. In both qualifying for 2010 and 2014 both Guyana and Belize had home legs against Mexico that they elected to move to the US for cash instead of bringing a big time opponent to their country.
     
    lime repped this.
  6. Sebsasour

    Sebsasour Member+

    New Mexico United
    May 26, 2012
    Albuquerque NM
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It doesn't, it would objectively hurt the US. This is a rest of a CONCACAF idea
     
  7. FlipsLikeAPancake

    Jul 6, 2010
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah that could work. Though, I'd probably want to leave out Belize and Nicaragua if we combined.

    But heck, I don't even think we need to combine. Just spin off all the shitty tiny Caribbean nations.

    What if we just spun off the nations with under a million people? Take Cuba, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Trinidad and Tobago, Jamaica and Puerto Rico and have them join the 10 nations in North and Central America. 16 team confederation.

    The rest of the Caribbean can be on their own. Play all the meaningful games you want in your useless Oceania-esque confederation. Have fun not being subsidized by the US!
     
  8. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I agree, and I already think we play too many bad teams. I'd rather we only play the Hex.

    If they want to do this, we should just join CONMEBOL.
     
    nycfc919 repped this.
  9. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    3.5 berths out of 35 teams is going to make the process very involved, if they want to emulate UEFA.

    Three groups of nine & one of eight teams, with the four winners playing a final round to determine who is sent to the play-off?
     
  10. Sebsasour

    Sebsasour Member+

    New Mexico United
    May 26, 2012
    Albuquerque NM
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think they'd want to implement it if FIFA expanded the World Cup to 48 and CONCACAF had a few extra births, still though imagine the rankings working out weird one year and having to be in a group with Costa Rica and Honduras having to finish 1st?
     
  11. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I would leave the present WC quali's the same for Concacaf and maybe have a better opponent for the 4th place team in the play off. The smaller countries in Caribs region will come along naturally. Adding lopsided games is liable to bleed over into disinterest in the international game altogether. The national team fixture isn't one you should want to skip.

    We should get out of the Concacaf Champion's league altogether, especially as MLS has a long way to go in terms of product quality. It doesn't need a ball and chain like CL to deal with.

    Figuring out when seasons begin and end in this part of the world gives me a headache. So, leaving that aside, we could make the open cup standings determine qualification and send a contingent (2,3,4,n?teams) to a knockout tournament somewhere at the end of the season - the climate would be good in Florida, Mexico, etc. and our teams would be match fit.

    The grand slam would be open cup, supporters' shield, MLS Cup and Concacaf CL.
     
  12. The Franchise

    The Franchise Member+

    Nov 13, 2014
    Bakersfield, CA
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    CONCACAF has two big draws. Nothing's changing that. There's also about a dozen or so nations which have viable programs, capable of at least dreaming of a World Cup spot. Some, notably Costa Rica, are quite good on the field, even if they don't move the needle for viewers and sponsors elsewhere. Then there are thirty countries and territories which are dependents. For most, population size and/or poverty will prevent ever joining the middle tier. World Cup Qualifying is not better off having them around longer.

    This is not to say their national and ethnic backgrounds don't have intrinsic value. It should still mean something to the players to put on their national colors, or for their fans to come watch them play. But these aren't contenders, and nobody will be better off pretending it's so.
     
  13. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    I do think that making the CFU their own confederation, giving them a half WC berth (the .5 of our current 3.5, specifically), and having the rest of CONCACAF schedule a rather CONMEBOL-like qualifying league format to determine our remaining 3 Wold Cup berths is probably the single best scenario that I could think of. I wouldn't even be against the idea of allowing them to have their playoff tie be held against the OFC permanently, guaranteeing that at least one relatively small island nation competes in every World Cup.
     
    IndividualEleven and exref repped this.
  14. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Thing is the money. Having the little nations play the big names leaves some money they can use to improve their programs, or to pay their players a salary so they don't have to work full-time somewhere else.

    It's undeniable the UEFA system has helped some "minnows" like the Faroes or Liechtenstein.
     
    Footsatt, Winoman, exref and 1 other person repped this.
  15. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It would be really sad if that qualification process is extended to involve more crap games. Hopefully US/CR/Mexico push back on this stupidity.
     
  16. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    #16 Marko72, Oct 9, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2016
    Yes, but in this case I just think that this comes at too big a cost, for one thing, and for another, in an alternate world where where we have a "North American" or "North and Central American" confederation, whatever you'd want to call it, the minnow beneficiaries would be Nicaragua, Belize, and... Canada!

    And in the scenario that I outline above, you'd have one nation out of the OFC or CFU make the World Cup in every cycle, and you'd probably have an OFC and a CFU contestant (or at very least the winner of a playoff, if they want to keep the same tournament format) in every Confed Cup tournament, which for those nations would be very significant. You'd also have to give them a half or whole Olympic berth, as well as berths in the U-xx and Women's World Cups.
     
    IndividualEleven repped this.
  17. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Maybe they should look to alternatives rather than going along with same ol', same ol'.

    Puerto Rico has 3.5 million people. Gotta be some good players in there. Where are they? It's not like they don't have opportunity to play against good competition.

    OK, don't answer the question because it's up to Puerto Rico if they want to go out in tropical sun and play soccer or do basket in an airconditioned arena, or volleyball that they can take to the beach, etc. Their culture might not be amenable to soccer. Why force feed it from an office tower in Geneva?
     
  18. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Why anyone would want to emulate the stupidest qualifying scheme on earth is beyond me. UEFA should copy concacf's scheme, not the othe way around. Have the minnows play in the early rounds and the winners joining bigger teams in a final round. Much better
     
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  19. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Just one slight quibble: I'd say that CAF has the worst qualifying scheme. UEFA's is the second-worst.
     
    (TxT), CeltTexan, russ and 1 other person repped this.
  20. PhillyandBCEagles

    Jul 9, 2012
    NC
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    I think PR should be better than they are (and they are getting better), but they have 1% the population of the US and soccer is the 3rd or 4th sport.

    I like the "spin off the Caribbean and merge the rest with CONMEBOL" idea. 8-9 spots for the merged confederation and let Jamaica, T&T, Haiti, and 30 minnows fight it out for a half spot.
     
  21. Ironbound

    Ironbound Member+

    Jul 1, 2009
    Love all of this. Also, give Jamaica and T&T permanent guest spots in the Gold Cup.
     
  22. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

    Jun 23, 2009
    Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All for reform but this wouldn't help the US or Mexico. Merging with CONMEBOL would be the dream scenario, expand WC spots. Problem would be travel and qualifying being tougher. CONCACAF won't let Mexico go because $$$$.
     
  23. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    A merger with C-BOL but giving 0.5 spots to the CFU means 7.5 spots left open.

    Right now, on the FIFA ranking, the teams in the Americas are:

    #1 Argentina
    #2 Colombia
    #3 Brazil
    #4 Chile
    #5 Uruguay
    #6 Mexico
    #7 Costa Rica
    #8 Ecuador
    #9 USA
    #10 Peru
    #11 Paraguay
    #12 Venezuela

    with 5 C-BOL teams in the Top 10 in the world.

    Now, knowing we beat Ecuador and Paraguay by a single goal playing at home, and also beat Peru by one at home, in the last year, do we have a shot? Because we'd get destroyed in Quito, and Asuncion and Lima wouldn't be much better.
     
    Excellency repped this.
  24. Athlone

    Athlone Member+

    Feb 2, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    The discussion regarding mergers of confederations and spinoffs of sub confederations seems to come up every few months, and every time the outcome is sort of similar for the Caribbean: they spinoff into their own confederation and get half a spot.

    I get where people are coming from with this: the Caribbean region is small, it's teams/players not remarkably well know, and it is easy to ignore. But on the face of it, I can't help but feel this whole "0.5 spots for 30 teams" thing seems slightly like short change.
    Oceania gets a half spot for 11 sides, not a one of which (not even NZ) are superior to any one of Haiti, Trinidad, or Jamaica. The second best team in Oceania would have a difficult time matching up with even middling CFU sides like St. Kitts and Antigua.
    The CFU is larger (three times the size), deeper, and stronger than the OFC and I don't think it should be given the same treatment. A half spot is quite low.

    That being said, I think the CFU could be convinced to accept a spinoff proposal that gave them a separate path of qualification. There would be stipulations, however, most of which are covered in these two posts:

    The stipulations would be as follows:

    1. Caribbean playoff is tied permanently to the OFC.
    2. Caribbean teams continue to earn places at the Gold Cup via their Caribbean Cup
    3. Caribbean Champions remain eligible for any combined Copa Centenario type tournaments to be held in the future
    4. Caribbean teams will have slots in any future implementation of a CONCACAF "nation's league" competition, should that come to pass.

    The biggest hang up would be, as noted earlier, the number of spots. 0.5 is low. However, this problem could solve itself with expansion. Montagliani has implied that this modification of qualification would likely coincide with the expansion of the World Cup itself. That means more berths to go around, which would facilitate a more fair allocation to the Caribbean.

    A post-expansion plan that kept the stipulations above while allocating multiple berths (either 2 playoff spots in the 48-team proposal's pre-group stage knockout round or a single guaranteed group stage berth + a playoff spot) would be, in my opinion, quite acceptable and probably would go over fairly well in the CFU.

    I get that you don't rate us, but you're going to have to accept that we are not prepared to simply roll over and die because you think we're too small to be worthy of anything at all. A resolution is certainly possible (especially post expansion), but it'll need to be one that is amicable to both sides. A plan that has at its heart the "**** the Caribbean" mentality and intent you are voicing in this thread is not going to go over well and will never be implemented.
     
    Deeneaus, sXeWesley, ceezmad and 2 others repped this.
  25. FlipsLikeAPancake

    Jul 6, 2010
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, obviously I don't expect my idea to happen. And I didn't mean offense to Jamaica. I don't have issue with playing Jamaica. My ideas are half baked; I like several potential changes, not just abandoning Jamaica for CONMEBOL.

    One, as I said earlier in the thread, is spinning off the small population Caribbean teams into their own confederation. I would happily take the 6 Caribbean teams that have over a million people. Trinidad and Jamaica are good teams. Haiti and Cuba have some quality. Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic stink, but with their large populations at least have potential.

    Every other Caribbean team has less than 1/2 million people. These countries are never qualifying for the World Cup. It doesn't matter if they get more development dollars and competitive games. It just isn't happening.

    Yet this block of nations has the ability to significantly impact CONCACAF policy, often to enrich their local officials, not improve the quality of the game.

    It's exceedingly frustrating being in a confederation with these nations. Take the 6 Caribbean nations I listed and the 10 North and Central American nations and bam, you have an 16 team confederation.

    The other 25 can be spun off and have their own confederation. Deprived of the quality of teams like Jamaica, Haiti and Trinidad, these 25 nations wouldn't even deserve 1/2 a World Cup spot in my mind. Give them 1/4 of a spot. The winner can play the winner of Oceania for the right to play for a spot.

    Of course this won't happen. FIFA officials pander to smaller nations for votes, and they'll never consent to something like this. But I'd vastly prefer it over the situation now, which already has too many pointless games and invites too much corruption.
     
    jaxonmills repped this.

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