CONCACAF Champions League Coefficient

Discussion in 'CONCACAF Champions Cup' started by ArsenalMetro, Sep 30, 2009.

  1. City Dave

    City Dave Member

    Jan 26, 2007
    Cleveland, OH
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Perhaps he should choose a different title for the chart. It's not really "league coefficient" but "federation coefficient". All the Canadian teams are grouped together, all the American, Caribbean, etc.
     
  2. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good point. If an NASL or USL team were to win the US Open Cup, their subsequent performance in the CCL would still reflect on the US in ArsenalMetro's coefficient.
     
  3. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Good point. It'll be changed on the next one.
     
  4. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  5. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  6. Czech Soccer...

    Czech Soccer... Red Card

    Mar 14, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Czechia
    Thge question was how a Canadian team gets a coefficient,since they don't play in a canadian league?
     
  7. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cool?
     
  8. Czech Soccer...

    Czech Soccer... Red Card

    Mar 14, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Czechia
    I thought that in Europe the coefficient for the country can be improved by a club...I.E...If a club makes it far in Ch. League and/or Europa League,it improves the coefficient for the clubs from the country for next season etc...
     
  9. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    It does. That's why Canada's coefficient for 2008-09 (Montreal's run) is high, but for 2009-10 (Toronto knocked out in the prelims) is really low.
     
  10. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    After 2010-11 quarterfinals, first leg:

    Movement:
    - Saprissa over Atlante
    - Columbus over Olimpia
    - Real Salt Lake over Arabe Unido
    - Monterrey over Houston
    - Seattle over San Francisco

    Code:
    Federation Coefficient              
    
    Nation         2008-09   2009-10   2010-11   Overall   
    Mexico          19.500    23.125    15.500    58.125
    Honduras        12.750     8.333     7.833    28.917  
    Canada          16.500     0.500    11.500    28.500   
    CFU              9.167     8.000     5.833    23.000   
    United States    4.625     8.375     9.375    22.375
    Panama           9.250     7.000     2.333    18.583  
    Guatemala        5.000     6.000     5.250    16.250
    Costa Rica       5.750     3.167     7.250    16.167
    El Salvador      5.250     3.500     4.000    12.750
    Nicaragua        0.500     0.000     0.000     0.500
    Belize           0.000     0.000     0.000     0.000
                    
                    
    Club Coefficient
               
    Club         2008-09    2009-10   2010-11    Overall
    Cruz Azul    23.4167    29.6313   15.1667    68.2147
    UNAM         16.4167    22.6313    0.0000    39.0480
    Toluca        0.0000    22.6313   13.1667    35.7980
    Marathon     14.2500    13.7500    6.6111    34.6111
    Santos       19.4167     0.0000   15.1667    34.5834
    Puerto Rico  17.0556     5.6400    7.9444    30.6400
    Pachuca       0.0000    28.6313    0.0000    28.6313
    Saprissa      8.9167     5.0450   12.4167    26.3784
    Atlante      25.4167     0.0000    0.0000    25.4167
    Columbus      0.0000    10.7638   13.1250    23.8888
    Olimpia      10.2500     0.0000   12.6111    22.8611
    Monterrey     0.0000     0.0000   19.1667    19.1667
    Houston      10.5417     7.7638    0.0000    18.3055
    Montreal     16.5000     0.0000    0.0000    16.5000
    Municipal     6.6667     0.0000    7.7500    14.4167
    Real Salt Lake0.0000     0.0000   14.1250    14.1250
    Arabe Unido   0.0000    10.3100    2.7778    13.0878
    D.C. United   2.5417     9.7638    0.0000    12.3055
    Comunicaciones0.0000     9.9800    0.0000     9.9800
    Toronto FC    0.0000     0.0000    9.8333     9.8333
    Tauro         9.0833     0.0000    0.0000     9.0833
    Joe Public    5.0556     0.0000    2.9444     8.0000
    L.A. Firpo    7.7500     0.0000    0.0000     7.7500
    W Connection  0.0000     7.6400    0.0000     7.6400
    Real Espana   0.0000     6.7500    0.0000     6.7500
    Seattle       0.0000     0.0000    5.1250     5.1250
    San Francisco 5.0833     0.0000    0.0000     5.0833
    FAS           0.0000     0.0000    3.3333     3.3333
    Isidro Metapan0.0000     3.1550    0.0000     3.1550
    SJ Jabloteh   0.0000     2.6400    0.0000     2.6400
     
  11. munichfan9

    munichfan9 BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Aug 7, 2005
    Burke, Virginia
    i was just wondering if you factored in margin of victory into the coefficients?
     
  12. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    No, not at all.
     
  13. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    After 2010-11 quarterfinals

    Movement:
    - United States over CFU
    - Costa Rica over Guatemala
    - Santos over Marathon
    - Saprissa over Pachuca
    - Salt Lake over Municipal, Montreal

    Code:
    Federation Coefficient              
    
    Nation         2008-09   2009-10   2010-11   Overall   
    Mexico          19.500    23.125    17.000    59.625
    Honduras        12.750     8.333     7.833    28.917  
    Canada          16.500     0.500    11.500    28.500
    United States    4.625     8.375    10.125    23.125   
    CFU              9.167     8.000     5.833    23.000   
    Panama           9.250     7.000     2.333    18.583 
    Costa Rica       5.750     3.167     8.750    17.667 
    Guatemala        5.000     6.000     5.250    16.250
    El Salvador      5.250     3.500     4.000    12.750
    Nicaragua        0.500     0.000     0.000     0.500
    Belize           0.000     0.000     0.000     0.000
                    
                    
    Club Coefficient
               
    Club         2008-09    2009-10   2010-11    Overall
    Cruz Azul    23.4167    29.6313   18.6667    71.7147
    UNAM         16.4167    22.6313    0.0000    39.0480
    Toluca        0.0000    22.6313   13.6667    36.2980
    Santos       19.4167     0.0000   15.6667    35.0834
    Marathon     14.2500    13.7500    6.6111    34.6111
    Puerto Rico  17.0556     5.6400    7.9444    30.6400
    Saprissa      8.9167     5.0450   15.9167    29.8784
    Pachuca       0.0000    28.6313    0.0000    28.6313
    Atlante      25.4167     0.0000    0.0000    25.4167
    Columbus      0.0000    10.7638   13.3750    24.1388
    Olimpia      10.2500     0.0000   12.6111    22.8611
    Monterrey     0.0000     0.0000   22.6667    22.6667
    Houston      10.5417     7.7638    0.0000    18.3055
    Salt Lake     0.0000     0.0000   17.3750    17.3750
    Montreal     16.5000     0.0000    0.0000    16.5000
    Municipal     6.6667     0.0000    7.7500    14.4167
    Arabe Unido   0.0000    10.3100    2.7778    13.0878
    D.C. United   2.5417     9.7638    0.0000    12.3055
    Comunicaciones0.0000     9.9800    0.0000     9.9800
    Toronto FC    0.0000     0.0000    9.8333     9.8333
    Tauro         9.0833     0.0000    0.0000     9.0833
    Joe Public    5.0556     0.0000    2.9444     8.0000
    L.A. Firpo    7.7500     0.0000    0.0000     7.7500
    W Connection  0.0000     7.6400    0.0000     7.6400
    Real Espana   0.0000     6.7500    0.0000     6.7500
    Seattle       0.0000     0.0000    5.3750     5.3750
    San Francisco 5.0833     0.0000    0.0000     5.0833
    FAS           0.0000     0.0000    3.3333     3.3333
    Isidro Metapan0.0000     3.1550    0.0000     3.1550
    SJ Jabloteh   0.0000     2.6400    0.0000     2.6400
     
  14. City Dave

    City Dave Member

    Jan 26, 2007
    Cleveland, OH
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Updated coefficients based on advancement through rounds:

    2010-11
    Pts/Teams
    Mex 8/4*
    USA 4/4*
    CR 2/2*
    Can 1/1
    Carib 2/3
    Hon 2/3
    ES 1/2
    Guat 0/2
    Panama 0/3

    Total in new format
    Pts/Teams
    Mex 33/12*
    Carib 9/9
    Can 3/3
    Hon 6/7
    USA 7/12*
    Panama 4/7
    CR 2/7*
    ES 1/6
    Guat 1/6
    Bel 0/1
    Nic 0/1

    *Can still gain points this year.
     
  15. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    After 2010-11 semifinals, first leg:

    Movement:
    - Salt Lake over Houston
    - Monterrey over Columbus, Olimpia

    Code:
    Federation Coefficient              
    
    Nation         2008-09   2009-10   2010-11   Overall   
    Mexico          19.500    23.125    17.500    60.125
    Honduras        12.750     8.333     7.833    28.917  
    Canada          16.500     0.500    11.500    28.500
    United States    4.625     8.375    10.625    23.625   
    CFU              9.167     8.000     5.833    23.000   
    Panama           9.250     7.000     2.333    18.583 
    Costa Rica       5.750     3.167     8.750    17.667 
    Guatemala        5.000     6.000     5.250    16.250
    El Salvador      5.250     3.500     4.000    12.750
    Nicaragua        0.500     0.000     0.000     0.500
    Belize           0.000     0.000     0.000     0.000
                    
                    
    Club Coefficient
               
    Club         2008-09    2009-10   2010-11    Overall
    Cruz Azul    23.4167    29.6313   18.8333    71.8813
    UNAM         16.4167    22.6313    0.0000    39.0480
    Toluca        0.0000    22.6313   13.8333    36.4646
    Santos       19.4167     0.0000   15.8333    35.2500
    Marathon     14.2500    13.7500    6.6111    34.6111
    Puerto Rico  17.0556     5.6400    7.9444    30.6400
    Saprissa      8.9167     5.0450   15.9167    29.8784
    Pachuca       0.0000    28.6313    0.0000    28.6313
    Atlante      25.4167     0.0000    0.0000    25.4167
    Monterrey     0.0000     0.0000   24.8333    24.8333
    Columbus      0.0000    10.7638   13.5417    24.3055
    Olimpia      10.2500     0.0000   12.6111    22.8611
    Salt Lake     0.0000     0.0000   19.5417    19.5417
    Houston      10.5417     7.7638    0.0000    18.3055
    Montreal     16.5000     0.0000    0.0000    16.5000
    Municipal     6.6667     0.0000    7.7500    14.4167
    Arabe Unido   0.0000    10.3100    2.7778    13.0878
    D.C. United   2.5417     9.7638    0.0000    12.3055
    Comunicaciones0.0000     9.9800    0.0000     9.9800
    Toronto FC    0.0000     0.0000    9.8333     9.8333
    Tauro         9.0833     0.0000    0.0000     9.0833
    Joe Public    5.0556     0.0000    2.9444     8.0000
    L.A. Firpo    7.7500     0.0000    0.0000     7.7500
    W Connection  0.0000     7.6400    0.0000     7.6400
    Real Espana   0.0000     6.7500    0.0000     6.7500
    Seattle       0.0000     0.0000    5.5417     5.5417
    San Francisco 5.0833     0.0000    0.0000     5.0833
    FAS           0.0000     0.0000    3.3333     3.3333
    Isidro Metapan0.0000     3.1550    0.0000     3.1550
    SJ Jabloteh   0.0000     2.6400    0.0000     2.6400
     
  16. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you know what is the hypothetical Max score a country could get in 1 year?

    I assume that it would be different depending on country.

    For example, Canada with only one team could win every single game and score very high. 2+6+2+2+2 = 14 wins by 1 team

    the USA and Mexico could win every game except the semi-finals and the finals. So the best they could do is win 42 games and lose 6 then divisible by 4 teams.
     
  17. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I just did some quick calculations, so they might be wrong, but the max numbers would be...

    4 teams (2 prelim, 2 group): 26.5 coefficient (106 total)
    3 teams (2 prelim, 1 group): 28.0 coefficient (84 total)
    2 teams (1 prelim, 1 group): 30.0 coefficient (60 total)
    1 team (1 prelim): 33.0 coefficient (33 total)

    In my opinion, Mexico's 2009-10 campaign is probably the closest we'll ever get to perfection. Every team won their group and their quarterfinal, and that's a difficult feat to match.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    After 2010-11 semifinals

    Movement:
    - Costa Rica over Panama
    - Saprissa over Puerto Rico
    - Monterrey over Atlante

    Code:
    Federation Coefficient              
    
    Nation         2008-09   2009-10   2010-11   Overall   
    Mexico          19.500    23.125    18.250    60.875
    Honduras        12.750     8.333     7.833    28.917  
    Canada          16.500     0.500    11.500    28.500
    United States    4.625     8.375    10.875    23.875   
    CFU              9.167     8.000     5.833    23.000
    Costa Rica       5.750     3.167     9.750    18.667    
    Panama           9.250     7.000     2.333    18.583 
    Guatemala        5.000     6.000     5.250    16.250
    El Salvador      5.250     3.500     4.000    12.750
    Nicaragua        0.500     0.000     0.000     0.500
    Belize           0.000     0.000     0.000     0.000
                    
                    
    Club Coefficient
               
    Club         2008-09    2009-10   2010-11    Overall
    Cruz Azul    23.4167    29.6313   20.0833    73.1313
    UNAM         16.4167    22.6313    0.0000    39.0480
    Toluca        0.0000    22.6313   14.0833    36.7146
    Santos       19.4167     0.0000   16.0833    35.5000
    Marathon     14.2500    13.7500    6.6111    34.6111
    Saprissa      8.9167     5.0450   18.2500    32.2117
    Puerto Rico  17.0556     5.6400    7.9444    30.6400
    Pachuca       0.0000    28.6313    0.0000    28.6313
    Monterrey     0.0000     0.0000   27.0833    27.0833
    Atlante      25.4167     0.0000    0.0000    25.4167
    Columbus      0.0000    10.7638   13.6250    24.3888
    Olimpia      10.2500     0.0000   12.6111    22.8611
    Salt Lake     0.0000     0.0000   20.6250    20.6250
    Houston      10.5417     7.7638    0.0000    18.3055
    Montreal     16.5000     0.0000    0.0000    16.5000
    Municipal     6.6667     0.0000    7.7500    14.4167
    Arabe Unido   0.0000    10.3100    2.7778    13.0878
    D.C. United   2.5417     9.7638    0.0000    12.3055
    Comunicaciones0.0000     9.9800    0.0000     9.9800
    Toronto FC    0.0000     0.0000    9.8333     9.8333
    Tauro         9.0833     0.0000    0.0000     9.0833
    Joe Public    5.0556     0.0000    2.9444     8.0000
    L.A. Firpo    7.7500     0.0000    0.0000     7.7500
    W Connection  0.0000     7.6400    0.0000     7.6400
    Real Espana   0.0000     6.7500    0.0000     6.7500
    Seattle       0.0000     0.0000    5.6250     5.6250
    San Francisco 5.0833     0.0000    0.0000     5.0833
    FAS           0.0000     0.0000    3.3333     3.3333
    Isidro Metapan0.0000     3.1550    0.0000     3.1550
    SJ Jabloteh   0.0000     2.6400    0.0000     2.6400
     
  19. themodelcitizen

    Jul 23, 2000
    BMO Field - Sec. 114
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I know it's in no way feasible, but a quick idea I had if the CCL was determined on these, with the automatic qualifiers going straight into the groups and everyone else playing 1 playoff round:

    1. Mexico (4 spots, 2 of them automatic)
    -------------------------------
    2. Honduras (3 spots, 1 automatic)
    3. Canada (3 spots, 1 automatic)
    4. USA (3 spots, 1 automatic)
    5. CFU (3 spots, 1 automatic)
    -----------------------------
    6. Costa Rica (2 spots, 1 automatic)
    7. Panama (2 spots)
    8. Guatemala (2 spots)
    ----------------------
    9. El Salvador (1 spots)
    10. Nicaragua (1 spot)
    11. Belize (1 spot)

    Bit harsh on El Salvador but I wanted to give Costa Rica an automatic place, their pedigree in the competition seems to deserve it. The Canada/US thing should balance out in a few years, I can't see us (Canada) going anywhere but down once Montreal's miracle run gains less importance. Also, adding more qualifying rounds like in Europe would help to structure it differently to balance things more.
     
  20. slaminsams

    slaminsams Member+

    Mar 22, 2010
    The Canadian part is a bit hard to follow and perhaps I misunderstood it. You think Canada will be going down as Montreal's run becomes less of a factor yet Canada would get 4 spots. Its hard to see Canada warranting 4 spots given there are currently only 4 teams in the Canadian championship.
     
  21. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Canada would probably get a max of 2 teams (until the UCC grows to more teams)

    They do have a good argument (for now) to have the Canada team go straight into the group stage at least.
     
  22. slaminsams

    slaminsams Member+

    Mar 22, 2010
    Yeah Canada should go to the group stage direct but I think having half of the eligible teams in the CCL is a bit generous and all 4 makes no sense. I mean if they were as dominant as Mexico then I could see the argument for having half in but all 4 would still make no sense to me.
     
  23. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    He was saying that, based on my coefficient, they should get 3 slots, 1 of which takes a team directly to the group stage, which is an argument I'm tempted to agree with. He isn't saying, however, that this would be a concrete thing, with Canada getting 3 spots for every tournament from here until the end of time; as the 2008-09 coefficient got phased out (Montreal's miracle run), Canada's standing in the coefficient would plummet, and they would get fewer teams entered later on as a result.
     
  24. slaminsams

    slaminsams Member+

    Mar 22, 2010
    I know the slot allocation isn't until the end of time I get the concept of slot allocation.

    Having a country going from 1 slot to 3 when they only have 4 teams to chose from even if the numbers back it up is a concept that in practicality doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps you guys are speaking in hypothetical's of just going by the numbers and it isn't really the way you want slots allocated? If that the case then that was my misunderstanding.
     
  25. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Yeah, that's my take, at least. I would give Canada two, given their performances so far, but even that's stretching it. If the CSL teams (I know, lol) were eligible, then two would be easier to swallow.
     

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