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Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by Antario2, Sep 11, 2016.

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  1. How is it possible that countries with comparable free gun ownership to the USA by far havenot got the same killing rate by guns. I recall Canada, but there are a few European countries too that have large gun ownership and lag far behind (even when recalculated to the difference between the USA and them in %% ownership) in numbers killed by guns.
    But I guess gun violence, like gang shootings arenot part of the 6% terrorist acts comparison. That would otherwise mean each year 1800 killed by Muslim terrorists in the USA alone. And I guess too that the 6% also includes acts where no one was killed.
     
  2. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #77 Brilliant Dutch, Sep 20, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
    I know you're an anti-gun Liberal O14, and thats fine.
    But here's why I think disarming the US is a really bad idea:


    You guys live in a totally different culture than Europe or other countries. You have a lot more crime then most other countries around the world. If you were to take all guns away the only people left who would still have guns are criminals and any would-be terrorists, because only law-abiding gun owners would turn their guns in.

    Now you've just created an even worse situation because it becomes open season by criminals on US citizens who are now sitting ducks. So thats one reason.

    Another reason its a REALLY bad idea to have US citizens completely disarmed is because southern States become an open target for Mexican drug dealers who seem to cross the southern borders freely at will. Farmers in Texas, Arizona........etc now cant even defend their property, and you better believe Mexican drug gangs would take full advantage of that.

    So no, US gun-control in all its forms is a bad idea
     
  3. Okay, what page of the DT rant aka the Republican election campaign paper are you citing?
    So if I understand you well you are suggesting police protection, especially in the southern states is non existent. Even I donot believe the police only objective is to shoot innocent, unarmed, mostly black people.
    Unless you believe they do that because they fear to encounter armed criminals and Mexican drug gangs.
    You also state that people in the USA are far more criminal human beings than the rest of the world. I would call that ... How can I call it... racist...no you paint them all with one big brush...prejudiced ..that's it..biased prejudiced. You are being silly.
     
  4. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Let me clarify one thing, I am NOT anti-gun. I am anti-assault weapon and other types of fire arms that can fire multiple rounds very quickly. I don't know of anyone running for president right now that has advocated confiscation of all guns. The National Rifle Association is currently running advertisements supporting Donald Trump arguing that Clinton will take away their rights to own guns. Unless our Constitution is amended this is impossible, though there could be increased gun controls of some sort to be determined. even that would be very difficult to achieve.

    Mexican drug dealers are not crossing the border in large numbers, rather they are using sophisticate means to smuggle drugs into the US through existing border stations. Those that are trying to cross over are largely people seeking a better way of life but even those numbers have decreased quite a lot. I don't buy this argument that Brilliant Dutch.

    In terms of hand guns, I you cannot demonstrate proficiency on a firing range you should not have a right to own a handgun. Anyone who is a decent shot should be able to bring down an intruder with one or at most two shots.

    Meanwhile another unarmed black man was shot by police.
     
  5. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #80 Brilliant Dutch, Sep 20, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
    No, I'm saying police response on average is 9 minutes or so. That means if someone is coming after you with a gun, its much better to have your own gun at home then to have to rely on 9 minutes for the police to arrive.

    Examples: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=man gun protects home

    Also, I dont know where you come up with racism now, I'm merely stating statistical facts. USA has one of the highest gun violence stats in the industrialized world. Thats a fact!
     
  6. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #81 Brilliant Dutch, Sep 20, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
    There are hunting rifles you can buy which are as powerful, if not MORE powerful than assault rifles.
    You're headed down a slippery slope if you ban assault rifles, or powerful hunting rifles. Besides you can do just as much damage with a handgun which has a high-capacity magazine, than you can do with an assault rifle.

    Also when Libs say we just want basic gun-control they are LYING!
    Mary Bayer (a Hillary Clinton delegate) caught on hidden camera saying what the real Liberal agenda is
    (first 36 seconds):



    And when you say Mexican gangs dont cross the border right now, thats because most US households down south are armed to the teeth.

    Now take that right away, disarm every farm on the border, and what do you think will happen?? Nothing??
     
  7. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Of course there are powerful hunting rifles but they don't fire magazine loads of bullets. Most sniper rifles are single shot. Why does anyone need a handgun the fires more than six bullets. Folks got along just fine with revolvers for a lot of years which only had 5 or 6 bullet capacity depending on the model. Smith & Wesson 38 revolvers were standard issue for most police departments for years. The US has blocked the sale of machine guns ever since the 1930s so there is a precedent for deciding which types of arms can and cannot be sold.

    You can find a YouTube clip to argue ever single thing in the universe. Just because you found one doesn't mean that our 2nd amendment rights to have a gun(s) is going to disappear. That just won't happen.

    Again you are arguing about something that won't happen.
     
  8. No, I said it cannot be called that, because you brush all Yanks with the same broad sweep.
     
  9. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Okay, but how can you even call it predujice when all I'm doing is stating statistical facts??
     
  10. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Limiting magazines wont work because all a spree-shooter would have to do is carry multiple clips or magazines, and just start changing them. If you practice it enough you can change a magazine in under 3 seconds.

    And your 2nd amendment could easily disappear if you got 75% of the electoral vote.
    I would agree with you its unlikely to happen soon, but you can never say for sure.

    And to state that Mexican gangs would never try to infiltrate border towns is also not true, because you dont know what the future brings. Have you seen the state of affairs Mexico is currently in?? Its a total narco-State now. Possibly on the brink of civil war the way Colombia was during Pablo Escobar days in 1980's
     
  11. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Issue full AR-15s to everyone in America and play a game of last man/women standing

    No, it also requires a yes vote by 38 of the 50 states and that's never going to happen. You have enough states where gun rights are a gift from God that will never vote for this.

    Not really, there is a huge amount of industry in Mexico unlike Colombia. My new Honda was made in a plant just outside Mexico City.
     
  12. Because those stats are bogus. They lock up people for years in many states, who have done nothing wrong but being caught three times using drugs like weed, under the 3 strikes, your out acts.
    But that's what you get in states where locking people up is big business. When it delivers big money, the system is going to find ways to fill the cells.
    Just to show how crooked the system is an example of how that drug abuse was handled when non whites were the "perpetrators". They were criminalized. But hey, since a few years in very white states the use of heroin exploded (cannot recall why, perhaps Orange14 knows). What happens? Suddenly they want to see it as and treat it as an illness, because the perpetrators are now middleclass and upperclass people and very white. Otherwise the crime rates in white areas would sky rocket.
    Prejudiced called out by taking DT/right wing maniacs rethorics for true.
     
  13. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I thought everyone in America already owned an AR-15.....LOL :laugh:

    And what does the fact Mexico has industries to do with the fact civil war could never break out??
    Its already a narco-State now, or do you deny that??
     
  14. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    You're a strange debater, FSF. I was talking about gun violence, which means people are either injured or killed with bullets.

    Now suddenly you're going on about weed, drugs, and god knows what else
     
  15. I thought you were talking about the general state of crime in the USA. But when restricted to gun violence, of the 30 000 plus killed the common wisdom is that you get killed by someone you know and in a minority of the cases by a criminal going after you. So to be safe take your AKxx and shoot everybody you know. If a man kills his wife or vice versa it gets into the stats as a crime, sure, but hardly something to worry about as these "criminals" are unprobable going after you.
     
  16. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Okay :unsure:
     
  17. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Yes, this is pretty much accurate. Heroin abuse these days is mostly among whites and not necessarily lower class either. There has been an epidemic of heroin abuse in some high schools in Virginia about 20 miles from where I live. We don't see much of it where I am. They are trying to change all the sentencing guidelines so that possession is not a major crime any longer.

    Personally, I'm in favor of full decriminalization which is what is happening with marijuana these days in a lot of states. We spend so much money on drug enforcement and all this does is drive up the price. If it were decriminalized we would see all of BD's narco cartels in Mexico shrivel up as there would not be any profit in the business. All those ranchers in the southwest would not need their assault guns anymore as there would not be a drug trade across the border. However, there should be free treatment for all addicts who want to get clean and tough penalties for anyone who commits a crime under the influence.
     
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  18. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  19. Donald Trump, Forgetting Slavery And Jim Crow, Claims Black Americans Have Never Been Worse Off
    “Our African-American communities are absolutely in the worst shape that they’ve ever been in before. Ever, ever, ever.”


    Donald Trump, disregarding centuries of atrocities faced by black people in America, claimed Tuesday that black communities have never been worse off than they are now.

    Speaking at a rally in Kenansville, North Carolina, Trump again stumbled in an apparent attempt to endear himself to black voters.

    “We’re going to make our country safe again. We’re going to rebuild our inner cities because our African-American communities are absolutely in the worst shape that they’ve ever been in before,” he said. “Ever, ever, ever.”


    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_57e1b099e4b0e28b2b50d74c

    Oh dear.
    And he with his colonialistic buddy Giuliano or how ever his name is spelled, think they have the right to seize the oil of Iraq. How dumber can one get?
     
  20. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I am too.

    Drug addiction is a mental health issue, not a criminal issue
     
  21. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    We agree on something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D
     
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  22. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Yeah, I'm fiscally very conservative.
    I'm also very conservative when it comes to border protection and immigration rules.

    I am however extremely Liberal when it comes to personal choices like drugs, gay marriage, gambling, prostitution.....etc.

    (no homo)
     
    JC-14 repped this.
  23. We have to get drunk on that:p
     
  24. You do know that you end up in hell with that bucket list:confused:
    With all the atheists running for cover I might have to settle for infamous sinners:sneaky:
     
  25. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    2 things I hate about my Conservatism:

    1. Religious idiots infesting our ranks.
    2. Religious idiots forcing THEIR values on other people, and telling them how to live their lives.

    Nothing infuriates me more than #2
     
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