Colorado vs Toronto (CCL)

Discussion in 'Referee' started by YoungRef87, Feb 21, 2018.

  1. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    Watched the first half of the Toronto FC vs Colorado Rapids match last night. It was a CONCACAF Champions League game, so all the refs had their FIFA badges. However, I noticed that the center ref often seemed to be in a weird position. At least twice the players had to push him out of the way and he was in the way multiple times. He also seemed to be just an average ref. Any idea why this guy is a FIFA referee?
     
  2. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  3. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    Because he has a really wide body of solid work, and wasn't judged solely on one game by one message board participant that doesn't even know his name?
     
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  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, let's not go crazy.

    The second part of your statement is 100% true. But the bolded part should probably just say "Because he is the best referee in St. Kitts & Nevis."

    There are plenty of referees around the world who attain FIFA status without having what could reasonably be called "a really wide body of solid work." There's an element of a quota system, with every federation having some slots to fill. If a federation wants one of its referees to have FIFA status and that individual can pass the fitness test, there's not much standing in the way other than a veto from the confederation (which won't happen to smaller federations due to political reasons). That's not a judgment on Kim Ward's merits either way; we just shouldn't fall into the trap that FIFA status automatically means something about ability and resume, other than it meaning one is a FIFA qualified referee that year.
     
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  5. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018

    Exactly. I wasn’t trying to say he was bad, I just noticed his positioning didn’t seem very good at all.
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, to be both fair and clear, I agree with what I feel is @akindc's more important point here. A mistake here or there or a seemingly "off" match isn't really enough to ask "any idea why this guy is a FIFA referee?"
     
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  7. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    Maybe this came out wrong. What I meant was that his positioning did not look like the positioning of a FIFA referee. As I said, players had to push him out of the way multiple times.
     
  8. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    Yeah, I guess that was a little extreme. I will definitely be more careful judging people on just one game.
     
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  9. Bio-Hazard

    Bio-Hazard Member

    Jun 15, 2015
    Seattle, WA
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Keep your flag down, rookie.
     
  10. jayhonk

    jayhonk Member+

    Oct 9, 2007
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  11. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
  12. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I agree with this 100%. Not all FIFA's are created the equal. I would say it use to even be the same for national referees here in the US when there seemed to be an over abundance of nationals referees (before they trimmed back the national referee pool). National referees from bigger states are not at the same level as some national referees from smaller states. Same at the FIFA level.
     
  13. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018

    So when they trimmed the National Referee pool, did they take national referees’ badges away? Or did they just trim the candidates for national referee?
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Both, essentially. But the verbs "take" and "trim" maybe aren't the best words. They completely overhauled the process.

    There were too many National Referees. There has been several different evolutions of what it meant to be an NR, really ever since MLS came onto the scene. But up until maybe six or seven years ago, there was pretty much a path for any referee to make it NR if s/he had the backing of their state and met the objective criteria (game count, number of assessments, fitness, etc.) listed in the administrative handbook. That started to change with the federation playing a more hands-on role in the selection of NRs. And that hands-on role involved the federation saying certain referees just weren't good enough or had been an NR too long. Or that there were too many CRs (or not enough ARs). So fewer invitations to National Camp started to go out. The size of the NR pool got cut by a decent size for 2015 and then significantly so for 2016.

    The federation tried to take control of National Candidacy (which was really a state thing) during this time period--maybe 2013 or 2014. There would normally be dozens or maybe even a hundred NCs in a given year. The federation thought this was stupid given overall desire to reduce the NR pool, so took control of who got to be an NC. It reached the point that Grade 5 was turned into only National Candidates and, I believe, there were a total of 12 Grade 5s in the country one year. That has changed again, with Grade 5 being a limited grade that states can promote someone to; it's essentially a grade that says "hey Chicago, you should look at (or keep looking at) this referee." But there's really no official NC status or and no longer a declaration of candidacy like there was in the past. No one is officially a "National Candidate" anymore, though there are obviously certain Grade 5s who are being much more heavily looked at than others.

    It's a very opaque and subjective system. Many referees have a problem with that. Some deservedly complain that they get overlooked, others who never should have been at that level have sour grapes. It's by no means a perfect system. But the pool needed to be culled and that's been accomplished. Where things go in the next few years as PRO needs to do a better job of identifying and promoting talent will be interesting to watch.
     
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  15. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Like MASS said both.
    Although he explained it in a much more succinct and concise way. I wouldn't get caught up in the nomenclature and number system of referee grades. Grades don't define referees. Even international badges don't matter as you've seen first hand.
     
  16. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Their last year as the Wizards was 2010.
     

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