College is a huge scam

Discussion in 'Education and Academia' started by SLTF, Jun 13, 2006.

  1. Shen-O

    Shen-O Member+

    United States
    Jul 26, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know its an old thread now, but just to prove how easy these tests here in LA really are:

    In the 10th grade - which is the first time you get to take it - a buddy and I raced each other to see who could finish first - bubbling randomly at your highest speed - and we both passed....AND I won the race too.

    I really never understood how people failed it, I gave it a few looks after I had finished it and its the easiest test you'll get in HS.
     
  2. jokerman326

    jokerman326 New Member

    Feb 23, 2007
    college is a huge scam, teh kind that steels mony from your pockets, that's why i never went. don't go, because it doesn't really matter, just work and make monie. anyway, i like living with my parents, but what do i know? alott, that's what.
    :D
     
  3. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    I wish colleges taught their students how to learn.

    My wish is being fulfilled.
     
  4. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    A huge scam? I don't know where some of you are coming from. To me going to the university was an invaluable experience. I regret I could only do it for four years, because I needed to start making some money.

    Of course, it didn't prepare me for a lot of things that I faced later in life, but it helped me grow and become a more complete person.

    Look, guys, there are two important ways of learning. Formal learning, and by experience. Both are very valuable, and it is not wise to look down on either one.

    I advice young people to take advantage of both if they can. Don't just study and live in an ivory tower, take the time to experience life. But, don't underestimate the value of studying, either.
     
  5. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    Oh no, I'm talking about the profs who walk in and don't remember what they assigned you for HW todays before. Or the one's who leave things out of their syllabus. Or teach outside of the text and expect for you to have an idea about what they are teaching. But yeah, a good number of college students don't try...and college, really..isn't that hard if you have a decent prof.
     
  6. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Remembering such things does not a good professor make.

    If this is the chief complaint of my students -- and I admit that my students could make this complaint of me -- than I'm doing a decent job.

    This is a trivial complaint.

    What difference does it make?

    Even stuff clearly delineated on the syllabus goes right over the head of far too many students.

    Have you ever written a textbook? Are you familiar w/ the publishing industry? Have you ever mastered a field and then gone back and taught an intro class on the subject? Do you work in a field in which as soon as something hits the textbook, it's outdated?

    Have you ever taken a pedagogy class?

    Do you know what it's like to correct hundreds of essays, exams, final exams every semester from students that fail to go to a sufficient amount of lectures?

    An "A" exam takes me 7-8 minutes to correct. A "B"... 15-20. A "C"... 25-30. A "D" or an "F"? 5 minutes. I won't/can't take the time to do a private, written tutorial for students who either shouldn't be in my class or aren't putting forth an effort.

    You add up those "C" students, and many profs choose to supplement their textbooks w/ their own materials. It forces students to come to lectures, which makes it easier for you to fulfill all 3 parts of your contract: teaching, service (committees, counseling) and research.

    And then maybe you'll have time to spend with your family that you're neglecting.
     
  7. needs

    needs Member

    Jan 16, 2003
    Brooklyn
    Well done.

    Why in the world would you even want a professor who didn't teach beyond the text? That's the most absurd complaint I've ever heard. "I want someone who puts in the absolute minimum of effort and brings no original value to the class, someone who is a glorified grader."

    Students need to realize they're not in high school any more, that they're being taught by people who have done significant original research into the things they're teaching, and who are engaged in shaping what they teach, rather than just repeating the work of others.

    There is a minimum level of administrative competence professors need to bring to a class, but changing the syllabus and engaging in digressions are far more likely a sign of someone who's engaged with the class they're teaching than someone who is incompetent.
     
  8. quentinc

    quentinc New Member

    Jan 3, 2005
    Annapolis, MD
    Shit, I'm in high school and my English teacher routinely forgets things, proposes assignments without ever actually assigning them, doesn't grade half the things we do turn in, and when he does grade, waits until the absolute last minute (pissing AP students off to no end).

    And you know what? He's hands down, the best teacher I've ever had in my life.

    Your input into a class will probably equal what you get out of it.
     
  9. Leto

    Leto New Member

    Aug 23, 2001
    Donegal,Ireland
    Ta-dah!
     
  10. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    blah blah blah

    Okay, I'm supposed to spend thousands of dollars a year and be happy with a shity education system? Be happy with professors who can't explain ANYTHING? Happy with professors who show up later then the students? Happy with professors who give you multiple choices tests in which the four options given, none of them are correct? How about when they degrade Amercians because they believe Europeans are better workers? How about those genius professors who walk in, don't know when things are due, have you answer questions, tell you are wrong, and then restate your answer in different words at the correct answer? I like the profs who come into class and make fun of your political views in an intro poly sci course. Or the programming prof who has to copy and paste code because he doesn't know what he's doing.

    I'm sorry, many profs are bright people...but a good number of them only have book smarts and lack communication skills.
     
  11. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    Oh, don't get me wrong..I agree completely. It's a two way road, but sometimes, I feel students show more interest than the professors..and that is a problem.
     
  12. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just because you can't understand it doesn't mean they're not explaining it.
    How much later? Does it kill you to wait for 5, 10 minutes and shoot the shit with your classmates?
    Just because you can't recognize the correct answer choice doesn't mean it's not there.
    Do you go to college for an ego stroke or for an education?
    Not all profs are great listeners, it's true. But then again, just because you think they're restating the same concept using different words, doesn't mean they are. Words have meanings. Maybe they're actually saying something different and you're the one who can't comprehend the difference. I couldn't say, as you didn't provide an example. But even if I assume you're right... get over it. If you know you had the right answer, then you know you learned something. And that's why you're there, right? To learn.
    Doubtless because your political views are worthy of ridicule.
    Okay, I confess. I got nothing on that one. Never took computer programming.
    This is true, but you should remember that professors are hired for their original work in and contribution to their fields, not their people skills. Sometimes a student has to work extra hard to understand a concept that a professor has failed to adequately teach. But this isn't high school. You really are responsible for your own learning in college.

    Even in grad school I had instructors that I couldn't stand. They voiced (and repeatedly reiterated) ill-conceived, sometimes offensive views. They assigned pointless and worthless assignments, then graded them seemingly arbitrarily. But I have never, ever - even when getting a masters in education, which is saying a lot - taken a class which didn't teach me something. Even if all I learned was how to STFU and endure.
     
  13. NGV

    NGV Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    That depends on the school. At a major research university, teaching ability is generally a pretty unimportant factor in hiring and evaluation decisions; at smaller schools the priorities are often different.
     
  14. forzaboston

    forzaboston New Member

    Mar 16, 2007
    Washington, DC
    college has become a new way to get people in debt. i dont feel that much smarter for having a degree.
     
  15. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    for example, someone who dropped out of university after one or two years?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates#Early_life
    http://inventors.about.com/gi/dynam...ttp://members.tripod.com/~Codim/personal.html
    Bunch a freakin' hippies:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Microsoft-Staff-1978.jpg
    Perhaps you need to study the concept of the "straight line", grasshopper. :D
    http://www.jupiterscientific.org/sciinfo/jokes/miscellaneousjokes.html
    http://humor.about.com/c/ht/00/07/How_Tell_Joke0962934294.htm
    http://jubal.westnet.com/hyperdiscordia/partickle_metaphysics.html
    A related thread?
    http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=494120
     
  16. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    I've learned how to do that with out having to pay any one..
     
  17. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    Well, good luck getting a job without a diploma then, since you seem to think that's the skill you need.
     
  18. Yañez

    Yañez Member+

    Oct 11, 2005
    Santiago, Llolleo
    Club:
    Univ de Chile
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    The only thing wrong with college is the price and the book prices...
     
  19. needs

    needs Member

    Jan 16, 2003
    Brooklyn
    Hey, someone has to support the champagne wishes and caviar dreams of assistant professors.
     
  20. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    Ughhh..last time I checked, I'm in favor of attending college and earning a diploma...

    I personally just don't like having to pay thousands of dollars so I can be taught by professors who are more interested in their personal agenda outside of the class room than teaching. What's wrong with that? Don't tell me that you wouldn't get upset if you went to a dealer, spent $30k on a brand new car only to find out on the way home, your tire is flat, the one wheel is dent, and the radio doesn't work. You could fix all of that, but you just spent $30k on car..and I'm sure you'd be upset that the dealer did a crappy job selling you your expensive car.
     
  21. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    I think you should go back and take a logic course, because these two things in your post aren't remotely comparable. Its an absolutely terrible analogy.
    And once again, the first job of the professor is not to necessarily teach. Sorry. Everyone here has had professors who were less than great. Yeah, it happens. But you know what? You just keep studying and try to get what you can out of the class anyway.
     
  22. Cabster22

    Cabster22 New Member

    Feb 2, 2007
    Washington, DC

    what i never understood is how they can charge you, say 100 bucks for a new book. Then you sell it back to them, and they buy it back for $40. The next semester, they sell your used books to other students for $60! Biggest scam ever.:mad:
     
  23. quentinc

    quentinc New Member

    Jan 3, 2005
    Annapolis, MD
    And it's a scam because...they're trying to make a profit?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems to be pretty much how all second-hand dealers operate.
     
  24. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have no problem with that. In fact, I prefer it when teaching is a secondary or even peripheral concern for my professors. It means that they are actually active in their field. As a student, I can learn more from interacting with someone who is actively participating in his or her field, than I can from someone whose primary concern is teaching.

    If I don't feel I'm getting enough from that prof in terms of feedback or one-on-one attention, I'll go to his/her office hours. I've never seen a professor who wasn't willing to engage my ideas or give me feedback during office hours. I didn't go to college or grad school to be spoon-fed or stroked.

    The thing about a university is that it's a research institution, a place where original scholarship is taking place. You go to college to get the opportunity to learn from, and interact with, people who are involved in that research and scholarship. It's not like high school, where there is a predetermined set of skills and information you need to learn and the entire mission of the school is only to teach those things to students.
     
  25. needs

    needs Member

    Jan 16, 2003
    Brooklyn
    One of the secrets that most undergrads don't realize is that professors actually want students to come to office hours (with questions or comments about the class, not just to randomly chat for a half-hour) because...

    -you have to be there
    -since you never know when a student will show up, you can't get any real work done in those 1-2 hours
    -talking to someone is, for most professors, more interesting that hitting refresh on their email every 5 minutes.
     

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