College is a huge scam

Discussion in 'Education and Academia' started by SLTF, Jun 13, 2006.

  1. SLTF

    SLTF New Member

    Jun 12, 2006
    College is expensive (duh) and horribly inefficient (obvious), especially for undergraduates, when you consider that its primary goals are supposed to be education and research. The only reason colleges still exist in their current form is thanks to the government-sponsored mentality that you must have a degree to be worth anything.
     
  2. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    Yep...not going to college is a great idea. Why go to a state college..pay $12-14k a year and have the chance to make $50k with a BS? The opportunity cost of going to college is the money you'll be making had you joined the work force. The opportunity cost of not going to college, four years down the road, is MUCH higher.

    Also, do you expect high school grads to be able to do medical, engineering, IT, scientific, etc work? Please, don't use that whole we don't give HS diploma's enough credit. The work force of 2006 isn't that of 1850.
     
  3. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Shhhhhh . . . not too loudly! I don't want people to think that structural engineers need advanced training.
     
  4. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nah - high school is a huge scam, too.
     
  5. SLTF

    SLTF New Member

    Jun 12, 2006
    I don't mean that colleges shouldn't exist, I mean they could be a whole lot better. Sorry if this wasn't clear. My point is, there are ways of teaching "college-level" material that could be more effective than what is found in colleges today, but we'll never find out. Would you agree?
     
  6. SLTF

    SLTF New Member

    Jun 12, 2006
    Actually, I think high school diplomas are absolutely worthless, because we hand them out like candy. Look at California right now, for example. High school students are now supposed to pass a high school exit exam in order to graduate. I've seen the exam, and it is laughably easy. Maybe fourth grade level. But 10% of the students haven't been able to pass, so there is this huge outcry of "Oh no! Let them have their diplomas, don't ruin their lives!" But these idiots can't seem to figure out that if you just give diplomas to everybody, they don't really have much of a point.
     
  7. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    I agree with you then. I had more poorly managed classes this past year as a freshman than classes where I learned something. I wish profs were required to take more courses on how to TEACH. Most of my learning was done independently. Optimistically, this is good...problem solving later shouldn't be as difficult had I been spoon fed everything. But at the same time, I'm paying to go to a school where a prof has to ask me when papers are due and how much they are worth.

    High school is a joke too. I thought you would need a 3.7 or better to get into college. Hah. Kids with 2.5s got into schools like Temple, Penn State, etc.
     
  8. SLTF

    SLTF New Member

    Jun 12, 2006
    Yes, this is exactly my point. If it were not government policy to encourage everyone to get college degrees, students (especially independent learners such as yourself) would have the option of not getting a degree from a traditional college, and instead learning in some other way. Learning is supposed to be the goal, isn't it? For both high school and college, people these days place more emphasis upon the degree than what the degree is supposed to represent.
     
  9. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    College bookstores are a huge scam, for sure.
     
  10. odg78

    odg78 Member

    Feb 14, 2001
    North Carolina
    --College bookstore buy-back programs are a huge scam.
     
  11. Metros Striker10

    Metros Striker10 New Member

    Jul 7, 2001
    Planet Earth
    Freakin a they are...$15 workbooks for $5? $50+ books not bought back because they only accepted the first 20 sold back to them? Ugh...the student government at my school runs it, so there is no way they are gonna improve the system since it's a big money maker.

    Back to high school...I think the major problem is that most kids just don't give a damn. Those who wish to become doctors, engineers, scientists, etc, all take honors/AP courses. Those who go to high school because they have to, not because they want to, don't need to take advanced forms of courses because it doesn't matter to them. The only way the education system will become better, is if students have more desire to learn. It's not worth it for the government to fund schools so that teachers end up wasting their time with wannabe thugs, emo punks, and spoiled preppy kids who are more worried about clothing and music than their actual future. Think most of them care about calc and specialized science? Heck no. They want to leave at three o'clock so they can chill with their buddies. Maybe this isn't the case throughout the country, but that's how my HS was like.
     
  12. bostonsoccermdl

    bostonsoccermdl Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    Denver, CO
    If anything, the biggest value of college is going to one with a strong alumni network. That is how you alot of jobs in various fields, especially business.
     
  13. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Goddamn emo punks lousing up the education system...
     
  14. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    Like I tell the trolls who post on the fora I moderate - if you don't like it, don't go!
     
  15. SLTF

    SLTF New Member

    Jun 12, 2006
    This would be a great option if the college system weren't unfairly sponsored by the government.
     
  16. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Huh? You have to go to college because it's sponsored by the government?
     
  17. SLTF

    SLTF New Member

    Jun 12, 2006
    Yes, in the sense that the government requires you to go to college before you can be hired for most government jobs, or be a laywer or doctor, for example.
     
  18. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Damn them for wanting educated federal employees and qualified doctors and lawyers. It's extortion, really. Guess you'll just have to suck it up and enroll. Or, alternatively, there's always a McJob waiting for you. Have fun choosing.
     
  19. servotron

    servotron New Member

    Mar 4, 2004
    St Paul, MN
    ...or find yourself a line of work that doesn't require a college degree..OR work your way up the ranks and get hired into a job that "requires" a degree. That's what I've done. I took 1 semester of college, flunked all three classes (playing hackey sack was too magnetic of a draw for me) and instead I got an entry level job and worked my way up the ranks (through job-switching and internal promotion) at many companies. I guarantee that with a degree I'd be making the same amount of money, but I'd be paying off student loans on top of it all.

    It's not a scam if you're of the persuasion that you can work around any problem.
     
  20. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    You're the exception, not the rule.

    And you don't know what you would be doing right now if you had stayed in college. The stats show that college grads make more money than hs grads. Biology shows that college grads use more of their brain than hs grads. College is brain-building exercises.

    You simply do not know what you would have done had you stayed in school.
     
  21. Levante

    Levante Member+

    Jul 28, 2001
    Depends on what you study............

    If you studied Art Theory for instance, you're more than likely screwed.

    But on the bright side, you know a lot about Art Theory!
     
  22. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    Don't drink beer but like cheese
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not quite so simple. To be a doctor or a lawyer, you need to pass an exam proving that you know what you are going to do. Colleges and Universities provide the instruction for learning the necessary information to pass those exams.

    To put it another way, would you want a doctor giving you an exam or operating on you who didn't prove that they knew what they were professing to know.
     
  23. SLTF

    SLTF New Member

    Jun 12, 2006
    It's too late for me, because I already have my degree. In any case, please explain why you think someone can only be educated if they've gone to a typical college.

    I'm glad you brought this up. Why isn't it enough just to pass the exam, then? Why do people have to get a degree AND pass the exam? You say that colleges provide the information necessary to pass those exams, but surely you can't claim that going to college is the ONLY way to get this information. If the exam is comprehensive, and somebody passes, who cares whether they went to college or not?
     
  24. quentinc

    quentinc New Member

    Jan 3, 2005
    Annapolis, MD
    I believe he's saying that you don't have to get a degree to be licensed as a doctor or lawyer. Many of the original founding fathers taught themselves law, so it's not neccesarily unprecedented.
     
  25. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think that, so I don't have to explain anything.

    Would you hire a doctor or lawyer who did not have a medical or law degree? I'm sure you'll answer honestly.
     

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