Coaching the Revs

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by firstshirt, Jul 7, 2016.

  1. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Bayern München
    United States
    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Okay quick question for everyone. Whether it was Rec, Travel, Premier, HS, College or Semi Pro, most if not all of us have played the game. Some of us have coached at various levels as well and have referee certs. I am in no means saying that any of us are smarter than Heaps or on the same level just that we all have knowledge of the game. That said with the talent on this team how many of you would play with a single forward if you were hired today as the coach of the Revs? If you are going with two forwards what pairing would you go with?
     
  2. Revs in 2010

    Revs in 2010 Member+

    Feb 29, 2000
    Roanoke, VA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think there's an even better forest for the trees question: "why does he always trot out the same formation, regardless of opponent/conditions?"
     
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  3. a517dogg

    a517dogg Member+

    Oct 30, 2005
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Our left back is a converted midfielder. We play a center-back at right back. We have a quality #10, and lots of forwards. That leads to the clear conclusion that we should play with two forwards, a #10, 3 center backs, and wingbacks: a 3-5-2.

    http://lineupbuilder.com/?sk=bx5dx6

    upload_2016-7-7_9-50-37.png
     
  4. BERich

    BERich Member+

    Feb 3, 2012
    New England
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think this is a key point, if not THE key point. Heaps plays every game with "his" system. We are not the dominate team that requires other teams to adjust to us. Probably better than half the time, we are the weak team on the pitch. We need to figure out how to exploit the other team. Germany, the world champions, took to the pitch against Italy and countered Italy's 3 in the back with their own 3 in the back. Wow, change your formation, radical idea!!:eek:
     
  5. VTSoccerFan

    VTSoccerFan Member+

    New England Revolution, Vermont Catamounts, NCFC
    United States
    Jun 28, 2002
    Cary, NC
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Check out this pre-game Herald article from Kyle McCarthy.



     
  6. VTSoccerFan

    VTSoccerFan Member+

    New England Revolution, Vermont Catamounts, NCFC
    United States
    Jun 28, 2002
    Cary, NC
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kyle's twitter account was pretty good for the game last night. I had forgotten this:



     
  7. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kyle is wrong. The Revs can indeed submit that type of performance, and since their coach doesn't make changes ... he obviously expects the team to secure points this way.
     
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  8. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2012: 9-17-8
    2013: 14-11-9
    2014: 17-13-4
    2015: 14-12-8
    2016: 4-7-7*

    Overall record: 58-60-36

    No trophies. Only one final made.*

    What's the rush?

    *So far
     
  9. frankieg73

    frankieg73 Member

    New England Revolution
    Portugal
    Apr 8, 2001
    St. Petersburg, FL (not my choice)
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    Heaps has, for the most part, failed. But so has the GM. Who has done worse - the coach who doesn't know how to use what he has, or the GM that hasn't provided enough?

    I don't get the recent goalkeeper switch. Bobby was playing well for 2-3 years, then after a few weeks off Brad seems like the #1. What was this about?

    I want to give Heaps credit for moving Farrell back outside, where he is a better fit. But the Revs have plenty of RB options and few alternatives in the middle. The gain received by moving Farrell outside is less than the loss of using anyone else in the center.

    The middle is where the Revs are rich in talent, but where should these guys play? Heaps has had these players for multiple seasons but he still hasn't figured out how to use many of them.
    - Bunbury has some winger skills but isn't a winger and has proven he can't be a striker.
    - Is Fagundez better out wide or behind the striker? Nguyen has the attacking mid role so Diego is forced outside.
    - Agudelo is a forward with winger skills, though he is really not dependable in either spot.
    - What is Rowe's best spot? He's shouldn't be outside, isn't a DM, and isn't good enough to be an AM in this team.
    - Why does Heaps keep removing Caldwell, one of the few consistent players playing in his best position?
    - Why isn't Herivaux playing in the league?

    It has to be time to use 2 strikers. Kei should start every game. If Davies is healthy he could be a nice complement, or maybe Agudelo. Femi is a late game sub that adds energy and should be rewarded with more playing time as the season progresses.
     
  10. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lemmie axe you dis? Does Coach K ever need to change his formation? I rest my case, your honor.
     
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  11. RevsRule

    RevsRule Member+

    NE Revs, LAFC
    Jun 9, 1999
    N. Eastern, Mass
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Heaps got to this same point a few years ago then we got JJ and his butt got saved. Now we've screwed that one up and we're back to pre JJ days. Heaps is clueless, stubborn, and will not change what he does, no matter how many times it fails.

    There is only one possible outcome here. Heaps needs to be let go. There is no fixing what he refuses to see or change what he doesnt think is broken therefore he has to be removed. I wish Burns would go too but in the end, Burns will have to throw Heaps under the bus to save his own worthless butt
     
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  12. Feldspar

    Feldspar Member+

    Nov 19, 1998
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe BB or JK can throw Burns out while Burns is holding onto Heaps....
     
  13. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000
    ...but I dread to think of the sort of replacements that these guys would obtain. No confidence that they would actually upgrade the personnel holding any of these jobs, because that would cost money.

    And with JH and MB in place, the Revs still somehow manage to at least be close enough to a playoff berth, or even on occasion qualify, such that BK and JK and BB and MB and JH can all say "almost a playoff team this season" with a straight face at the end of each season. And enough ticket buyers will come back and buy tickets 'cause that's good enuf, and they still somehow think that the FO is "trying real hard".

    And that's all the guys on the Revs letterhead are striving for. Nothing more.

    [Yes, I know that I don't "know that" for certain. Save the energy you would otherwise spend on typing the rebuttal posts to tell me so.]
     
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  14. abecedarian

    abecedarian Member+

    Mar 25, 2009
    SSSomerville
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just an idle question: what would Paul Mariner do here?
     
  15. Soccer Doc

    Soccer Doc Member+

    Nov 30, 2001
    Keene, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    About as well as he did in Toronto
     
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  16. Feldspar

    Feldspar Member+

    Nov 19, 1998
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Amen. We need to break up the old system entirely, I think. I like Paul, but we need a clean break from the past (which, ironically, the Revs seem to be unable to do on the field but are happy to do off it – no honoring former players or the like. But that's another issue entirely...).
     
  17. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Heaps will have a job here as long as he still wants it. No need to change, since good enough is good enough. As long as we're not as bad as Philly, those guys are terrible. They didn't even make the playoffs last year!
     
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  18. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've been saying it for years. This team strives for mediocrity.

    It's OK though. The Krafts are great owners, and they really care about this team no matter what the public perception is.

    I'm sure they'll do something about this team's continued exasperating behavior.

    Right about when they build the new stadium.

    So ... just wait for it.
     
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  19. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I actually miss the days when people here would talk about how good a coach Heaps is, and what a good job Burns is doing.

    I mean, it was never actually true, but it was funny to read.
     
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  20. TheLostUniversity

    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Feb 4, 2007
    Greater Boston
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ah, the good ol' days "Heaps went to Duke! He's Smart! Heaps played for Coach K, and Coach K was a Coach who knew his Ball! So Heaps is a Coach who knows his Ball! Burnsie Burns Rev! Billelo Bleeds Rev! B&B brought us to the final! B&B discovered Jones! ....." it writes itself forever....

    But, yeah, it seems to have eventually just become too silly to bother with.
     
  21. frankieg73

    frankieg73 Member

    New England Revolution
    Portugal
    Apr 8, 2001
    St. Petersburg, FL (not my choice)
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    It is our right to complain about the lack of titles and the constant mediocrity and the failure to address problems.
    But Kraft is a business man and it's his right to treat this club as a business and focus on profits over on-field success.

    And it's also his right to laugh his way to the bank to cash in his expansion fee checks year after year, finally achieving the ROI he dreamed of 20+ years ago. While my complaining gets me nowhere.

    So who's the stupid one?
     
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  22. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    With Kamara and the current skill set, I would go with one forward. If he doesn't have any help, then that means the midfield isn't doing it's job, not that the formation is necessarily wrong.

    We don't have the classic wingers to support a 4-4-2 and we don't have the defenders to play a 3-5-2.

    What I would like to see at this point is to shuffle up the midfield: Herivaux paired with Caldwell at dmid, at least until Koffee gets back; Nguyen at left; Rowe at amid; Bunbury or Agudelo at right. I'd like to try Diego at amid, but honestly, he's done nothing to show that he even deserves to be on the field.
    I don't think that's really true and the history doesn't support it. By my count, the Revs have fired 5 coaches, so there isn't really any basis to think they wouldn't fire a coach when the team is under-performing. In fact, Nicol is the only coach they've stuck with for an extended period of time - and you could make a good case that he merited it (rather than that the Krafts didn't care whether the team was under-performing).
     
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  23. rkane1226

    rkane1226 Member+

    Apr 9, 2000
    Club:
    Stade Brestois 29
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    By my count he (Heaps) has the longest tenure already of any coach not named Nicol. In fact when he survives til the end of the season he'll have pretty much reached half of SN's season count. What has he done, really, that exceeds Clavijo or Rongen?

    Any response that mentions a cup final better have a lengthy footnote about the temporary lapse in Kraft fiscal policy and a terribly disloyal, washed up DP named Jones.
     
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  24. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #24 RevsLiverpool, Jul 9, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2016
    Rather than dismissing the formation and lineup outright, if we think about the past 2 results, the revs should have earned points. Yes, they lost to NYC and Montreal but if we analyze their performances a bit there were some awful misses by Teal and others against NYC. The loss in Montreal was just a horrible collapse but the revs were up 2 0 and Heaps screwed up tactically. However, up 2 0 in our sport, you're more likely to win than lose if you manage the game properly. So, I understand the logic of what Heaps is trying to do with a consistent lineup, even if the results haven't been there (til tonight).

    In terms of the forward question, I would stick with starting 1 forward up top as it makes the most sense given the currently available personnel. When Davies, Agudelo etc come back and there are other forward options available there may be additional opportunities, but this is the best team right now.

    The midfield is acceptable with Caldwell pairing Watson as the bite was missing while Koffee is out. If Watson is a yellow magnet then I'd rather he get yellows in the middle third rather than the defensive third. Rowe is ok on the left flank and Bunbury on the right (though he can't finish to save his life).

    Centrally, Heriveaux would be an interesting choice to pair Caldwell but he can wait until late in the season.

    Defensively, I like the current back four with Tierney, Goncalves, Woodberry and Farrell back to RB.

    In goal, Bobby vs Knighton is a pick 'em.
     
  25. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let's break it down:
    1996, Frank Stapleton: The guy was an accidental hire, he was out of his depth with the wierdness of MLS, and had "lost" the locker room by the end of the (playoff-less) season.
    1997-8, Thomas Rongen: On paper, the perfect hire. The Revs were much improved and headed in the right direction, but injuries contributed to a mid-year-swoon, but the team recoverd to make the playoffs. Halfway through the '98 season, Rongen quit on them to go to the World Cup, and the Krafts should have fired him on the spot, not waited until he came back, and the team floundering.
    1998-99, Walter Zenga: The very definition of "the wrong hire" as you can get. He was interested in playing, and to pay him what he wanted, they made him coach as well. He wasn't qualified, and it showed. Ironically enough, he went on to reasonable success as a manager elsewhere, but here he was terrible.
    2000-2002, Fernando Clavijo: Got off to a decent start, with the Revs best season ever to that point, plus an Open Cup final (with a bad team that had regressed) in 2001. It was clear he was on the hotseat at the start of 2002, when the brought in Nicol as the "assistant." Even Ray Charles could see where that was heading.
    2002-2011, Steve Nicol: The most successful tenure of any Revs manager ever, but he had clearly lost the plot int he last couple of years. Even Jon Kraft admitted that they should have done something sooner, but let him stay on out of loyalty and hopes that he could regain his magic. At the end of the day, his contract was up and it was considered a "mutual" decision, but it sure seems unlikely that they would have fired Nicol if he still had a year or two on his contract. Pay two coaches at the same time?

    The only times they have fired a coach is when he has been an obvious failure. Mediocrity and the desire to be better than that isn't enough to roll the dice. Unless the Revs turn into the 1999 Metros, Heaps' job will be safe. Good enough is good enough.

    So I stand by my prediction. Heaps has done "enough" in Kraft'e eyes to justify his continued employment, just like Burns and Bilello. Being an "almost playoff" team is almost as good as being in the playoffs, and if it wasn't for that game that we lost, and those other times when those other guys beat us, we'd be in the playoffs!
     
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