https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/8dexqp/nice_tactical_analysis_by_thierry_henry/ This is what GB is trying to do with one of Trapp/Bradley in the center with Adams. Then WM and CP those two high 10's and then the wingers high and wide. This is why I think the talk about Adams at RB is way overblown. This is where he will really play. Its not so much about Adams. The problem everyone has is playing Trapp/Adams. The complaints and discussion should be about who else they want there beside Adams. Even if you move Adams over to the Trapp/Bradley role- someone else needs to be there there with him. (I think there is a good chance in the future its Nagbe in the starting 11. Either one of those two or with McKennie back and Nagbe in the 8/10 role.
Having 5 back will help maintain possession. But with most of your passing options being sideways or back. Lima didn't tuck in until possession was moved up the field against Panama. When he did, Bradley never passed to him. So, we will see if that helps at all. The inverted FB seemed to be more to help with counter attacks to cover for MB/WT. You can keep 5 back without inverting a FB also, teams do it everywhere. Against T&T, we had plenty of numbers back in possession. This was a big problem as we had no problem using 5-6 players to get around the first line of T&T, since they only had 2 there. But it was slow and then it was 3 vs. 8-10 when we got to midfield. Against CR, when they pressed hard, it was solved by playing to the FBs in their natural position in a 4-back build out. GB said during half that, "the FBs are open" and they were. In neither game, that I can remember seeing, was the ball played to Lima and he made a half turn and moved the ball forward when he was in the inverted position. In fact, he was rarely played the ball there at all. It just seems like a big pretzel to allow for a weak defender to play QB. We will see, but looking at Adams and the players coming up behind him, we seem to have some talented players that could play that position with a tweak to the "role".
Check the video of Man City vs Tott that I just posted. The RB tucking in is no different than if he overlaps. There are still three guys back to cover and two cms to either chase wide or cover centrally.
I don't think you need an inverted RB to cover transistion defense with Adams on the field as the QB. This system is to cover for MB/WT. We could then play our FBs like Yedlin, Cannon, Robinson, Bello, Gloster, Dest in the way they succeed at their clubs. But McKennie, Roldan, Dest, and probably even Yedlin could do it. Oh, and I guess Lima. GB is going to come to his own conclusion over time. But, allowing for your saying MB/WT are the best long passers in the pool, the system is making trade offs to get that on the field. Even if Adams is not as good, he would allow for some of those trade offs to be unnecessary but require tweaks to the offensive system in other ways. I just think if you have a system built around Adams, we have more younger and talented players that can play it like he can (not as well sure) than we have replacements for Trapp and Bradley is over 30. It is like Altidore in 2014. Everyone bemoans that a like for like replacement wasn't brought. But there was no such player in our pool. So, maybe a system not built around him would have been smart? Or at least a solid Plan B that had been practiced more. If we go into 2022, with WT as this QB with Bradley retired by then, and Trapp rolls his ankle in warmups, what are we going to do? Can Bradley, obviously slowed by time, play all these international games and his MLS schedule to the age of 34?
I don't think MB/Trapp are the only reasons he's choosing those tactics. Check out those two vids. I think its about tactical answers to handle pressure
I agree. I'm just trying to converse with Praig on his terms because this is a thread about the philosophy. There is no doubt in my mind that Adams is the superior choice in all respects right now. As a former defender, it is possible GB is more comfortable designing a tactical system that covers for a defensive liability than trying to work out a tactical system that accounts for a different kind of forward passer.
I understand. I'm not saying there is a right or wrong way philosophically. But you can get the numbers in the build up in different ways. Again, Bradley never passed it to Lima when he was inverted. What is Lima doing then? To me, that is a defensive tactic to prevent counter attacks down the middle like we saw against Colombia in October and Mexico in June '17. Lima really only moved inside when the ball was played up with a winger or a 8/10. Against CR, pressure was broken by passing to Lovitz or Lima wide, not tucked in. We will see how it all develops. You could be right that GB would still want to do it with Adams there.
When I look at these videos of what Pep has tried with Man City- the offensive shape looks so similar. There are a few tweaks here and there but overall - very similar.
It is obvious to even the most basic fan that a CM pairing of Adams and McKennie is the clear choice for the USMNT moving forward. I somewhat jokingly said 18 months or so ago that they will be the current incarnation of Bradley (McKennie) and Jones (Adams) and their will be long interesting debates on BS about how well they play together and who should go forward and who should stay back. I look forward to those discussions once we have moved beyond mediocre options like Wil Trapp and an aged MB90!
Now I now that you are just trolling for WFT/MB90. @Patrick167 gave you concrete scenarios during the 2 USMNT matches against Panama C and CR C, you never address instead going to Pep and Man City. The US is not Man City and will never play like Man City, but it is great deflection. Next you will bring up Busquets and Jorginho (why not Fernandinho who plays for City?). Trapp and Bradley don't play like those two and are not "pressure resistant", so why bring them up.
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/8dexqp/nice_tactical_analysis_by_thierry_henry/ That is what I have been talking about.
"Whether I’m thinking about Weston as a number 10 who then defends as a number eight, or Christian as a number 10 who can also move wide, or Tyler as a right back who can come inside, but can also attack overlap or inner lap. Those are the kind of things that are exciting to me. It gives a lot of flexibility to the team." It was not a one time, quirky system. This is how GB intends the US to play. It may change but this what he has intended sense coming in.
I can't speak for others but I think if Adams were in that slot, there would be less of a need for that "versatile rb". it could be a more traditional overlapping rb or a more defensive minded player. He wouldn't need the help inside. That is especially true if you consider that one of the other mids will likely be McKennie.
Panama was not good. It all looked pretty against them. I can see you are interested in the attempt at the tactic rather than whether it will be successful. That is fine. I just think most here see another team built around Bradley as not being successful, like the last one. Nobody is saying GB shouldn't try this 3-2-2-3. Just try it with players that will make it work.
not sure it understand what you mean then. I took what you are saying that the right back would need to pinch in so that he could assist Bradlley/Trapp/whowever in the "6" because he would need the help defensively (that being a weakness of Bradley and Trapp). My response was based on the fact that Adams is stronger in that area and would not need much if any assistance from the rb. This would free up the right back for some other role. It wouldn't have to be anything that I said. There are two possible reasons for the role....1. cover up a weakness somewhere else or 2. the role gives some advantage strategically. I was responding to your post that seemed (to me) to imply that the position may be more to cover a weakness with the position. (I know you also mentioned playing with three in the back to deal with pressing but the rb positon doesn't seem to change that one way or the other (pinching vs overlapping) except possibly to necessitate the cbs playing with a bit more width? I don't believe it would be wise to have a rb "support" Adams defensively.
I think everyone is preoccupied with Bradley/ Trapp to see anything else. He’s not doing this around them. They are just cogs in a machine. He wants a possession attacking system and doesn’t have a pure #10. He’s then building from there. He wants two 10’s. That leaves the 6 isolated so he’s tucking in either the rm or rb. He needs width very high up. That means the rb would be too high to cover., So he’s tucking in the rb—playing as a second holding mid. It’s really has very little ti so with Trapp/Bradley. I’m interested in understanding it. It’s very well thought out and most scenarios are theoretically covered. I’m excited to see where theory meets reality.
Man City played the same system. They don't have a Bradley/Trapp to cover for. The system is as much if not more about possessing the ball and getting 2 10's up the field as it is about anything else. I think.
So, the two 10's I am guessing would be Pulisic and McKennie. (although Pulisic could be on the wing also). If you look at the two 10's vs Panama and CR, I believe Mihailovic (who would be replaced by Pulisic) played with relatively few defensive responsibilities and Roldan (who would be replaced by McKennie) was more active in that regard. I think that any team that wouldn't allow us to get both Pulisc and McKennie up into the offense would cause us serious problems overloading our right back position if he was pinching in. McKennie gets forward in B1 when he plays right back. I think he would do well with a guy like Adams supporting him. I believe the larger question is the one of passing. Would Adams be better worse or the same as Bradley or Trapp in that role. If you assume that Trapp (or Bradley) is the better passer, than it comes down to a compromise. My feeling is that it is better to compromise by playing out of the back a bit than to handicap your defense. If Adams turns out to be a similar or better passer than it is a no brainer. Many would argue that it already is a no brainer. I'm willing to wait and see what happens. It's not like we have anything to lose in the next two friendlies. Honestly, I'm a bit more concerned that a few other players weren't called into camp. Morales, Wood etc.
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/8dexqp/nice_tactical_analysis_by_thierry_henry/ I think this is how he wants to play in general. I don't think its about Bradley/Trapp. He's a big believer in Total soccer; Dutch football. "If I'm thinking about Weston who as a No. 10 but then defends as a No. 8, Christian as a No. 10 who also moves wide, or Tyler is a right back who can come inside and can also overlap or inner-lap; those are the things that are exciting to me," the U.S. coach said. "It gives a lot of flexibility in the team." I think this is the system he's working to implement. Its also why we got so many Camp Cupcake players- so that there is some carry over learning and not everyone coming in is fresh to the ideas and tactics. He already has to work in Adams, CP, and McKennie. That's three hugely important players by themselves. I also expect Brooks and Ream to be worked in. That's five starters in the new system. Every system has weaknesses. There are no perfect system. There will be tweaks to this game to game, opponent to opponent- But I think this is the base of what he plans on doing (until that first real punch - shakes things up).
I hope he doesn't plan on working Ream into the starting lineup. He just flat out isn't very good. I wonder why Alvarado wasn't given a call up and Gonzalez was instead?