Coaching Philosophies and the Gregg Berhalter System

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Susaeta, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    Yeah, that seems to be what is going on. That is strange.
     
  2. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1252 TheHoustonHoyaFan, Jun 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
    I agree it is very strange but truth be told I am very happy that after 6+ months of "experts" explaining GB's plan and system that is too brilliant for mere mortals to grok we finally get to hear some detailed answers to very specific and probing questions. I am flabbergasted by some of GB's statements and answers but it is what it is.

    Thank you Jeff Carlisle and ESPN for attempting a detailed and probing sit down with GB. We heard it from the horse's mouth so there it is. It may not be perfect but score one for good journalism!

    Now I won't ever have to hear as an answer to a concern about The System and The Plan; 'no you guys just don't understand see its QBs and Jorginho/Busquets/Pirlo and 3-2-2-3 and ... " :rolleyes:
     
  3. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1253 Lloyd Heilbrunn, Jun 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
    I don't disagree with a whole lot of what you said, I disagree with whomever made the original statement that a number of our youngsters are going to be in the top 5 to 10 players of all time for the US.
     
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  4. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    More likely from the other end...
     
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  5. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Good thing you're wrong. Perhaps that's the wrong way to couch it, but I wouldn't look at it as, "transcendent talents," how many are actually that? I don't know if the USMNT has EVER had a truly transcendent talent in soccer, at all. The fact that you couch the players as either that, or little engines that could makes it even more difficult to evaluate. What do you mean? I'm gonna presume on the one side you have USMNT difference makers, and on the other, you have the Will Trapp's and worse of the world.

    I'll just go with you're wrong.
     
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  6. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    That's normative in a reasonable class. 2-3 future USMNT regulars, hell the '13 disaster gave us what, 1.5.

    We're going to get more than 3 barring injury, in fact I'd go as far as saying at least 6 or more will get at least 1 cap, probably more than that. In terms of double digit caps, I'll be stunned if we don't get at least 4-5 with that. Yes, I know that breaks historical trends, but I am buying this group, and buying it much more than any class I've ever seen. The next best groups to me at the time were probably '03, '07 and '17.
     
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  7. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Did you get a chance to see Korea's 1-0 victory over Ecuador at U20's?

    That was some coaching job they did on those young Koreans. I don't see Earnie Stewart/Berhalter up to snuff by comparison. Agree?
     
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  8. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Translation:

    He's really really good at captaining, and veteraning.

    That's how dunderheaded this crap is.

    Watch the <expletive> tape GGG. You can't watch Bradley play today and see anything remotely resembling what he once was. He's embarrassing now. I don't care what standard he theoretically sets in the locker room, or weight room (a ship that should've sailed a long long time ago after the Couva debacle), he's no longer even a competent MLS starter, let alone a competent USMNT bench player or starter.
     
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  9. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    #1259 DHC1, Jun 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
    This is where you lose me and open up the broader Berhalter-needs-to-adjust-dramatically perspective to tangential counter arguments.

    Bradley is a competent MLS starter (whoscored backs this) - but he’s no longer anywhere close to being a Best XI candidate. He’s able to play in MLS given that it generally doesn’t pressure at a high enough speed to make him consistently uncomfortable. In addition, there aren’t many elite attacker who can highlight his defensive short-coming so the embarrassing lowlights where he get caught being slow footed are reasonably infrequent.

    The broader point is that a median but declining MLS CM should never be a core spine player for the USMNT. Arguing that he’s bad in MLS completely misses the main point that a spine player should be an elite minor leaguer or at least a highly touted up-and-coming player.

    More specifically, Bradley is not an “excellent, excellent player” as Berhalter unbelievably stated. Let’s have GGG backers defend that perspective ‘cuz it’s f***ing nuts and not give them a reasonable out where they say,”he’s not an incompetent MLS player.” I’d be interested to hear how reasonable people back that Bradley is elite as Berhalter claimed.
     
  10. SteelyTom

    SteelyTom Member

    Mar 21, 2007
    Boston, MA USA
    Club:
    Pumas UNAM
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I see Weah and perhaps Richards as exceptional talents and a number of the other guys, Dest for example, Mendez and Pomykal, as gritty types who could perhaps start someday for a subpar version of USMNT. Of course, someone can contribute and perhaps start despite being a marginal player at the international level, e.g. Trapp.
     
  11. SteelyTom

    SteelyTom Member

    Mar 21, 2007
    Boston, MA USA
    Club:
    Pumas UNAM
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gregg seems to have a habit of hyping his players (e.g his comments about Sargent's future on the team) while also claiming that a wide range of players can be taught, and plugged into, his system. If you're all about the system, better to take a Belichick approach and avoid playing favorites publicly.
     
  12. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Yep.
     
  13. GiallorossiYank

    GiallorossiYank Member+

    Jan 20, 2011
    NJ/Roma/Napoli
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  14. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    When a system is flawed good players can make it look good to great.
    When the players are poor a good system can make the team good to great.
    When the players are poor and the system is flawed you have the current US team.
     
  15. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This team, on the whole, has that bad smell of MLS mediocrity. Good luck!
     
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  16. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    MLS has improved, the problem is that the US-eligible players in MLS have not.
     
  17. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Well, I'd wonder how much poor product quality of the MLS product ends up affecting expectations/performance. Look at the schedule. There's not relegation. CCL interrupts good teams too early then Gold Cup comes along with international absences elsewhere, All Star game, brutal August heat. There's too much loss of focus in MLS. It's a mistake to think the game can relax like baseball where teams schlep around the basement for 165 games with hardly a sign of life.
     
  18. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    Like he couldnt beat Bradley or Trapp for the start lol. Well now that Tyler isnt coming with a sudden injury. It's not an issue. If we bomb out in the GC, I hope GB is smart enough to see his system doesnt work
     
  19. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    As much as I dislike the MLS because it has become almost unwatchable I have to mostly agree with this. Actually the top two to four teams in the MLS are pretty watchable when they play each other but the quality really falls off fast after those.

    The MLS also has added a LOT of players from the dregs of CONCACAF and a few top players on the downside of their career and that is what has made the MLS seem to be better.

    The MLS was pretty much sold to the US public as the salvation of US soccer but it has proved to really prolong fading carers of over the hill stars, breed improvement in the other CONCACAF countries, fill otherwise empty months with at least the appearance of a sport, promote even more thuggery throughout CONCACAF and lower the standards of play for the US men's national team.

    In some ways the MLS is the best thing that has happened to promote soccer in the US but, while doing that, it is one primary cause of the US MNT dropping in quality. My guess of the reason is that the better players rarely improve in the MLS is If they reach a certain level and do not make a move to a better league their time as a good player is very short.

    I actually think our MNT would be better without the MLS and just a lower level league like the old A-League.
     
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  20. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    For 1029, the composition of MLS Foreign Legion is given as:

    Europe = 121
    S. America = 111
    N. & C. America* = 89
    Africa = 46
    Asia = 7
    Oceania = 6

    * = outside the USA.

    Source:

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/media-resources/players-by-birthplace

    If you take the 41 Canucks out, we're left with only 48 players from other C-CAF countries. That's about the same as the number of African players.

    On a country-by-country basis, we got:

    33 Argentina
    24 France
    22 Brazil
    19 Colombia
    13 Germany
    13 Ghana
    13 Costa Rica
    12 England
    10 Sweden
    10 Venezuela
    9 Spain
    7 Honduras
    7 Uruguay
    7 Jamaica


    So only CRC makes it among the Top 10. The countries dominating the list are the main producers of top talent in the world: France, Argentina, Brazil & Germany. Plus the emerging Colombia. Young guys who are not good enough to get time in the top leagues, or even the second-level ones (like the Dutch or Mexican ones).

    We also get a good chunk of past-their-prime Euros, a smattering of Africans who didn't land a gig in Europe, etc. But the Caribbeans and Central Americans who make it to MLS tend to be their better players: unlike the South Americans, they don't have a tradition in Europe so they get few chances of going there.
     
  21. USA-Zebuel

    USA-Zebuel Member+

    Mar 26, 2013
    Club:
    Colón de Santa Fe
    He is serious, and don’t call him Shirley!
     
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  22. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    The Missing Generation has to be cycled through. The academy produced youngsters are showing promise.
     
  23. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Perhaps I'm wrong. I could be, I've just seen an absolute crap ton of clips this year of the same horror show I see w/the USMNT shirt, a slow old guy that simply doesn't have the quick twitch closing speed/acceleration etc to close down players and shut down passing lanes and on and on and on. It just looks like Matador defense to me. Maybe he gets away w/it more in MLS, I can't be sure, but I sure as heck know he can't hack it anymore at the national team level, and it does sound like he's nowhere near the player he was in MLS even three years ago, two years ago etc.
     
  24. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe that anybody knowledgeable who constructed a 1-5 depth chart for the CM slots in our 4-3-3 would be hard pressed to put MB90 or WFT as high as #4 on any of the 3 slots!
     
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  25. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I think that MLS is in a similar situation to the USMNT. The top US players are now either old or very young with few that are actually in their prime. If you think of the top US players in MLS, how many are actually 25-29ish. We have a lot of players that are in the top end of that age group and older. Think of Dax, Benny, Jeff L, Michael Parkhurst for a few off the top of my head. Those are (or at least were) extremely solid MLS players in their primes. We have a few like Zardes and Trapp that are solid MLS players but not too many and then we have the next group of solid MLS players that are entering or set to enter their primes (Roldan, and others) followed by a large group of players that look set to be solid MLS players and above. (many of the above group will likely move on ala adams). those players include guys like Pomykal, Busio, Aaronson, Sands, Trusty, Durkin, Mihailovic and others.

    So, are the US players worse than 5 years ago? I think the correct answer is a bit more nuanced than that.
     
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