Coaching Philosophies and the Gregg Berhalter System

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Susaeta, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT

    It's what have you done for me lately.

    Klinsi was also our coach in other matches, before he was sacked.
     
  2. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t blame anyone for blacking out a little during that first half. However, while he didn’t have a perfect game he also had two of our best scoring chances in the first half. A header on corner to the far post and a shot from outside the box. Keeper made good saves on both. The system isn’t a great fit for him. Can you tell me anything Roldan did of note worthiness?
     
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  3. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How can we possibly suck this bad?

    Seriously.
     
  4. btlove

    btlove Member

    United States
    Sep 29, 2017
    Austin Texas
    Glad you asked! Today I actually found out myself thanks to my friends on BigSoccer. Turns out our players suck! Even the ones we haven’t seen! (Trust me I looked up their minutes played online so I know) and that poor Gregg was put into an impossible position. Shame really.
     
  5. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    My current hypothesis is that both Egg and the pool are subpar.

    Still should be enough to make the GC semis and with some luck the final. And to qualify to Qatar by a nose.

    It's not like we were world beaters when we were ruling the Hex anyway.
     
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  6. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here’s the thing tho. Subpar to what? Spain or German or Brazil, absolutely. To the region, absolutely not. Outside of Mexico we have a more talented pool then the rest of the region.

    The issue is two fold. 1) We’re trying to convince ourselves because we’re more talented we should be able to play a sexy style even if it doesn’t fit our pool. 2) We’ve had horrible coaches. We need to go out and pay a top class coach from outside the US with experience. One who plays to our players strengths.

    We do that and we’re back to clear cut second best in the region with a growing group of young talented players getting a chance to play at the highest levels. Look at Sweden’s WC run after Zlatan left. He gave them a chance against anyone cause of his greatness but they had to play to him in a way that didn’t match their pool. They went on their run once they set up to play to their pools strengths.

    One of our biggest problem is the arrogance of those in charge. Not a lack of talent.
     
  7. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    You mean Holmes, I presume. McKennie came off for Holmes.

    What is your opinion of Holmes? Did you think he was better or worse than McKennie?
     
  8. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    To ourselves in the five previous cycles before the last one, of course.

    I don't have much hope of seeing us again make a WC QF, to be honest. I must have about seven WCs left, with some luck.
     
  9. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Surprised since you were specially mentioning McKennie's header to the far post that you didn't mention Roldan's header which Doyle says would have been a goal if Morris hadn't run into Roldan.

    b.t.w., Doyle and gang seem to think McKennie would be the guy to play "rb when we use the rb as a midfielder role". Adams would play 6.

    It always rains frogs when McKennie is up for discussion. We have yet one more position for him. We're not finished yet.

    Incidentally, TSS review of the game makes some trenchant points about Berhalter starting at 40'30" mark and going up to 45' mark.
    https://www.totalsoccershow.com/total-soccer-show-podcasts/
     
  10. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Expect Roldan didn’t head it cause they ran into each other. Who knows what would have happened had he connected but this isn’t what if’s. McKennie had shots on target that forced the keeper to make good saves. You bring up two players being inept.

    I want to stop with the stupid hybrid/flex system but I’d be ok with seeing that just cause Adams would be at 6 and we wouldn’t have to see Trapp/Bradley.

    We need to stop being cute and play McKennie and Adams as double pivot CMs in either a 3-4-3, 3-4-1-2, 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-3

    I’ll listen later. I like the show but they are far far too kind to Gregg and certain players than deserved. The media as a whole is too scared to be critical. It’s a problem.
     
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  11. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As long as we keep on keeping on with bad coaches who “know the pool” aka MLS we’re in trouble. We need good coaches who have nothing do to with our Fed/SUM. We had the chance of a life time at Tata and ********ed it up.
     
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  12. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    TSS guys actually question why Berhalter was falling into the defensive 442 when we were behind 1-0 v. Jamaica and just sat there watching Jamaica pass the ball around then fell behind 3-0 to Venezuela and did the same thing. They say they cant understand what the point was.
     
  13. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ill try and give them a listen soon but they’ve been far to kind up to this point.
     
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  14. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    agree .... "stop being cute" .... keep it simple ... put McKennie and Adams in the middle and build the team around them. pick two good fast wingbacks and a keeper that can organize the D .... Guzan? ...

    US strength was (past tense) toughness, a good captain and organized defense.

    let's not assume we are Man City or Barca ... just pick the best players - keep the formations simple ... focus on attacking the opponents weaknesses .... and have a beast and leader as your team captain (hint - that is not Trapp or your Columbus Crew favorites) ...
     
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  15. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Guzan? Really?
     
  16. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

    Jun 23, 2009
    Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some preaching patience and time with this team and Gregg's system.

    Here's why I think that is flawed. Gregg has showed no signs of adjusting or tweaking things. He has dug his feet in firmly to his system and is making excuses after games, blaming lack of match fitness.

    The second part is more obvious. I think even your casual national team fan can see it. And that is Adams used at right back. To take arguably your 2nd best young player from a CL team, and to play him out of position. You should maximize his strengths instead of playing him out of position. This looks even more ridiculous when Trapp has proven to be out of his depth at this level.

    Gregg is trying to coach a team he doesn't have. Instead of playing to the strengths of the pool. No John Brooks makes buildup out of back even more dicey. This isn't a club team. Gregg has to adjust and realize this. In other words, get over himself and call in the best players over ones for his "system."

    If he continues to show ineptitude and stubbornness in his approach he should be fired. Preferably post Gold Cup so the team can be salvaged before qualifying begins.
     
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  17. CyphaPSU

    CyphaPSU Member+

    Mar 16, 2003
    Not Far
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd say subpar even to our own standards. As currently constituted, this program is not even close to being ready to progress past the group stage of a World Cup and then even challenge for a spot in the quarterfinals; prior to this past cycle we had set a pattern of not only qualifying regularly for the WC but also challenging for the top spot in the Hex every single time; I see no legitimate reason to expect any dos-a-cero performances against a Mexican A-team at the moment, either. Those are standards that US Soccer set for itself since the turn of the millenium, and we have clearly regressed from that.
     
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  18. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    #1193 IndividualEleven, Jun 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
    Including the positions lost after the Venezuela match, we are now ranked 39th in the world, on the Elo. I believe that's our lowest ranking since 1997. Ideology over winning.
     
  19. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Fun fact: While a student at the University of North Carolina, Gregg Berhalter's senior thesis was titled Making a Shambles!
     
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  20. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    If you are right, it is only because Arena tore the team apart and Berhalter continues to ignore quite few players. Keep in mind that players like Albright, Ching, Olsen, Findley, Bornstein, Buddle, etc went to the 2006/10 WCs. Bring back all the euro based players that are being ignored, aggressively look to integrate the u20 guys and recruit a couple of dual nationals and we have at least as much talent as past teams. We could easilly come up with 30 to 40 players about the bottom guys of past rosters. Unfortunately, we will need to look to young guys to be difference makers, but they all seem to have the heads to deal with that pressure.
     
  21. CyphaPSU

    CyphaPSU Member+

    Mar 16, 2003
    Not Far
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I take a holistic approach at analyzing this; the problem we face right now involves player development of the current generation on the senior team pool, current coaching approach, and the way things are run by US Soccer admin. Problems like this are rarely simplistic, otherwise someone should have found the solution by now.
     
  22. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Yet, solving 80+% of the current problem is very simple. Just call in the best 23 players out of your top 30. If you want to call in some "veterans" or "prospects" who arent in the the top 30, then call in more 23. This is all on the Fed, not the players.
     
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  23. always sunny

    always sunny Member

    May 20, 2008
    The player pool is definitely down a bit overall, but there are several high end youngsters who have a chance to be top 5-10 (maybe better) US players ever. But the defense is not nearly as good as it has been, GK is obviously a big Q and there are other problems. Those are GB's fault.

    But if your system dictates Trapp or Bradley have to start and a BL player has to play as a RB then you need to go back to the drawing board and find a new system.
     
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  24. Konut

    Konut Member+

    May 31, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed. I guess you could say I was intrigued by what Berhalter was doing when he started, but never sold. I'm all for seeing what he can do in the gold cup, but if we don't make it to the final I'll probably jump on the sack him bandwagon.

    The more I analyze his system and watch highlights of our 2 best players (Pulisic and Adams), the more I realize he's really misusing personnel. Play Adams at a #6 or #8 role and get the most we can out of a champions league calliber 20 year old. And as many times as he's calling the role he's putting Pulisic in a "duel 10" role, it's simply not true. It's a #8 role which is going to handicap Pulisic. The main reason for this is because in Berhalter's system the wingbacks rarely overlap our wide midfielders, providing only one consistant source for width. A true #10 role has players to combine with who cut in from the wings because of the overlapping full backs. Either play Pulisic as a true #10, or better yet just play a traditional 4-3-3 and give Pulisic a free role on the wing like we've seen many great modern teams do with their best attacker. I mean really, when's the last time you've seen a high quality team play their best attacker as a CM in a 4-3-3?

    The only piece I struggle with is who do we go with for full backs in our pool? The obvious choice is Yedlin when he's healthy, although I think many on BS overlook his defensive deficiencies. At LB that really leaves us with Ream, who I think is more defensively solid than our other options, Lima, who has impressed me recently although is still a B- tier international defender at best, and ol' man Fabian Johnson, who I loved in his prime, but seems to already be over the hill.

    Is there anyone else that deserves a look at fullback? I'm not sold on Lovitz or Gloster at this point, although would be fine with bringing Gloster into a camp in the near future.
     
  25. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He must have changed the system from what he was running in Columbus.
     
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