Coaching Philosophies and the Gregg Berhalter System

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Susaeta, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    That is why I find the conversations so repetitive. GB has a particular approach to the game that you categorically believe we can't do. So GB is going to call players, create systems, and develop tactics that is against what you want to do. I get that. You've said it. After awhile though... it gets old. This is what he is doing. Hearing again and again the same message of who the US can't do this it not fun, interesting, or anything I feel a need to discuss.

    GB is going to try it. It doesn't matter what you and I want or prefer. I am just enjoying analyzing what he is doing and why... that's something that I can do that I find interesting. The only purpose of any of this.. is self entertainment. I find no entertainment talking repeatedly about how a completely different approach would be better. Maybe it would be; maybe it woudn't. We're never going to know.

    So I am finding entertainment in enjoying analyzing what GB is doing and finding enjoyment in analyzing what he might do.
     
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  2. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    You keep missing an important point. If we're going to try this system, at least do it in a way that maximizes our opportunity to win - given that we don't have anyone who is world-class or tailor-made at the QB role, it would be criminal not to try every single potential player at the position. We should be looking as broadly as possible and no one should be ruled out (a la Morales, Williams, Canouse, Adam, WM, Nagbe).

    I'm guessing that is not what is going to happen and GB may be wedded to a couple specific players in that role.

    As I said before, it will be a mitigating event if we experiment broadly at this position - let's see if it happens.
     
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  3. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    I don't know. I think he's tried at least two players in the one camp that he's had. Conouse was in there. I think its a bit unfair to assume that because you didn't see him in the actual game in that role, that he wasn't evaluated for it in training.

    Nabge seems to be in the same place as Jozy from what I've read. He's still coming back from injury. I think he would be an interesting choice there. Morales I really don't know.

    In short though, GB and his staff will make their evaluations. We can watch these guys too at their clubs and make projections. I'm not going to be upset if the coach chooses differently that me. I might get confused and start asking a lot of questions around why. But he has earned the right to make that call, not me.

    Now, once he runs these guys out on the field and he starts losing. If he doesnt' start making changes in personnel or tactics to adapt, I think people will have more reason to call foul and rant a bit. But he gets a shot at who he wants. AT this early stage, I am more interested in analyzing why he made certain choices than trying to say which choices he should make.
     
  4. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    I'm a naturally cynical guy :cool:

    We don't have a strong pool of 'QB's. A basic principle of football is you get your best players as far forward and central, i.e, as close to goal, as they can maximize the team's effectiveness.

    But this guy wants to move a (likely)$100 million midfielder to fullback to make way for Trapp/Bradley. C'mon.

    Inserting a Kyle Beckerman to allow a Jermaine Jones to play further forward: now that's how it's done.
     
  5. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    As I previously mentioned, I care about results first and foremost. If GB fields a squad and bosses our opponents, then I'm good. The only caveat is that it only matters to me when we play strong opponents in real matches. Beating minnows or looking good in friendlies doesn't mean all that much.

    To me, this is akin JK cutting LD (and I don't want to discuss that) in that it's not what I would do but if we outperform expectations*, then fine. If we underachieve, then the coach is f***ing retarded.

    * I'd define expectations are getting at least 7 points in the Hex from Mexico and CR and coming in at least 2nd place.
     
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  6. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I would feel better about this if, you know, he at least looked at Morales at camp and tried Adams and WM at the QB spot. Again, if the USMNT beats good teams, who am I to complain? If we don't, "the sword"
     
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  7. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    We really don’t know yet how he’s going to do it. This plan seemed in the works before Adams did so well with his new club.

    However I think it’s to get both Adams and McKennie on the field when neither has yet shown the ability to be that “qb” yet.

    I think given the assumption regarding how GB wants to play and all the potential problems it could solve- I like the creative thinking.
     
  8. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    We don’t know he won’t in training. For me he just has to do better than the last cycle. Pretty low bar
     
  9. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    McKennie is more of an '8'. The every touch videos of Adams's B1 matches show that he does quite well in deep central midfield with pressure on him. He was also excellent in the role in the Italy match where all the other center mids, including Trapp, crapped their pants.

    Berhalter recently reaffirmed the right back role for Adams.
    Then scrap the position.
     
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  10. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    He confirmed that the flexibility excites him as a coach. He also mentioned that Adams has played more centrally too and they’d evaluate it.

    The other reason to have that Rb tuck in is so the “qb” can’t get overloaded.
     
  11. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    This gets back to a specific principles. He’s looking at ways to play a specific way and that role seems key.

    I think he is likely to tweak it and things around it to solve problems but not scrap it. Same as he has for that #10 role
     
  12. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Slippery slope to dogmatism.

    Solution #1: have one of the 8s drop in to provide support.
    Solution: #2: move the QB position to attacking midfield or to wing-forward.
     
  13. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    Perhaps - if the 8 drops back then you lose the dual 10’s and the pressure would be on Cp.

    I don’t know about option 2. Could a A wing forward circulate and help maintain possession? Spread the field as well? Not sure what you’re thinking on that one. Not disagreeing - just not seeing it
     
  14. LuckofLichaj

    LuckofLichaj Member+

    Mar 9, 2012
    How far left did the formation (particularly Zimmerman, Long , WT/MB and Lima) shift when Lovitz had the ball?
     
  15. vexco

    vexco Member+

    Nov 2, 2013
    He can't be much worse.
     
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  16. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    If the pressure is being placed on the CP then this should free up the others to advance the ball.
    Of course. The player simply drops back and/or cuts inside.

    In the main, I don't understand the conceit of moving the two best mids or forwards further away from goal. This runs counter to basic footballing concepts. Pulisic needs to play more defense, and not play where he earned a 64 million euro transfer. We don't want Adams bossing central midfield like he does for the 3rd placed B1 team. We want him at right back, instead.
     
  17. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010

    no- the system on offense is a 343. It looks something like this


    -------------------------------------------Zardes
    -----------------------Pulisic --------------------------WM
    Arioloa ------------------------------------------------------------------------Morris
    --------------------------------------------------------Adams
    ----------------------------------Trapp
    ----------Ream-----------------------Brooks--------------------------Long


    That does what you want. It puts Adams in bossing the midfield and combining short passes with WM and CP. He's the one providing intial counter pressure if we lose the ball. . It puts CP farthest forward. It puts a "Qb" in there with midfield partner.

    Pulisic and WM are dual 10's that interchange with one another and with the wings. The are both pushed closest to goal and look to combine centrally.

    Its a basic 3 man back line, so there are still numbers in the back. Trapp covers centrally. If the ball goes wide, its pursed by the outside CB and Trapp floats in and Adams floats centrally.

    Then in our own half- without possession it falls into this


    ---------------------------------------------Zardes
    ------------------------------CP
    Ariola ----------------------------------------------------------Morris
    ------------------------Trapp-----------WM
    Ream -----------------Brooks----------Long --------------Adams


    It seems to mix the best of both worlds. Adams and WM go forward quickly and often. Just like an outside wingback that gets forward quickly, except in this case they are doing so centrally rather than wide. The width comes from Ariola and Morris. CP combines to get free on counters.

    It seems to have lots of potential... what do you dislike the most about this?
     
  18. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    And of course the problem is the defensive shape

    This is awful (I agree this is what Berhalter thinks will work)
    ---------------------------------------------Zardes
    ------------------------------CP
    Ariola ----------------------------------------------------------Morris
    ------------------------Trapp-----------WM
    Ream -----------------Brooks----------Long --------------Adams

    Trapp should say no thanks, boss. WM has no positional sense in that spot defensively. Adams can't hunt the play.

    But now we will find out because I think you are right that he wants to play that way.
     
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  19. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That’s not to say that a back three formation is invulnerable to coming unstuck out wide — that risk will always be there to some extent. But the greater proliferation of specialist defensive midfielders also mitigates against this. Ever since Claude Makélélé’s transfer ushered in an era of disappointment for Real Madrid and one of great success for Chelsea back in 2003, almost every top side has sought to have a midfielder dedicated to defensive duties within their ranks. These specialists are masters of spotting danger and plugging gaps; in that regard, they are a wingback’s best friend.
     
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  20. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    I don't think that disagrees with anything I've been saying. Do you?
     
  21. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    Here's a question for those of you who have analyzed Berhalter's teams in Columbus far more than me.
    I know there are some similarities between the USMNT under Berhalter and Columbus but how similar? Were there significant differences too? It seems to me that 2 10's vs 1 10 is a pretty significant difference. How about the way the "10" played in Columbus vs the way Mihailovic and Roldan played w/the USMNT? Different type of "10"? Maybe based upon available talent?

    My point is that perhaps he has done a significant amount of thinking about his likely player pool (he already knows many of the top players) and his system that he is trying to implement actually came second...to be player first, you don't necessarily have to put the players on the field without a system/plan...do you? I am not saying he isn't a system coach. I am suggesting that perhaps he has already adjusted his "system" to the players he has and after seeing in the system, perhaps more adjustments will come.
     
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