Due to post limit on the previous thread, let's pick up the discussion here. Previous thread. Thank you.
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 How do these coaches get hired at great programs, that have done absolutely nothing at their previous schools? Same with the poser getting hired at SMU? Will the head coach at tusculum a&m get the UNC or UCLA jobs when they open? Guess it is not what you know or who you know, but who you snow. vbrep_register("11430852")
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 It is all about who you are in bed with. Absolutely! The SMU guy was a former men's assistant at SMU. Hmmm...........
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 Alabama State Kendall Phillips out Former Mercer and GA State Coach Jodie Smith in.
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 How about this one ... may be a stretch, but there is a pretty successful D-III coach who has D-I experience and is a Texas Tech alum. Any thoughts about Tech going in that direction instead of a D-I assistant or lower range D-I coach?
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 Head Coaching experience in DII or DIII vs Asst. coaching in DI - I think this is in an interesting point. In several searches I've observed, I think much more weight should have been given to Head Coaching experience, regardless of Division. Learning to be a head coach - managing a program as the leader who makes the ultimate personnel and tactical decisions and is reponsible for articulating them to players, administrators, parents, the press, etc. is a lot harder to do than learning some additional NCAA rules and managing a [bigger] scholarship budget. The level of soccer and on-field knowledge required of good DIII and avg level DI programs is essentially the same and most good DIII coaches know exactly who the best prospects are, they just can't compete for them without a scholarship budget. I've seen several coaches coach their first-ever game as a head coach as a Division I college coach - does anyone think that's crazy? (VCU comes to mind and they were not even assistants) I hope your Texas Tech alum gets a good look by the adminstrators or committee who evaluate candidates - these good DIII head coaches often don't.
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 Eddie- You speak the truth......I am sure it is not rocket science coaching D. One Soccer. I am sure some of the best coaches in the country are practicing their trade at the D. 2 & 3 levels, while I am sure there is some definite incompetence at the D. 1 level.
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 Interesting thread. I don't post often, but I can tell you that in this day and age it is much better to be a D-III coach than a D-I coach. Yes, D-I has the scholarships and the glamour for potential players,etc. However, D-III has one important thing...job security! If you do reasonably well, aren't an administrative nightmare, kids have good grades, and stay out of trouble...you can stay there for life! I was a former D-I Assistant coach for 8 years, had a pretty successful program...a few NCAA appearances, a couple conference tourney championships, etc....but if I had to do it all over again, I would have gotten into a D-III program at a cool place to live.
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 I think that offers some good insight. What was it that bothered you at your D1 program? The lack of job security? How do D III programs pay? My hunch is that at a D1 school, if you do reasonably well, aren't an administrative problem, kids have good grades and stay out of trouble that you would be fine at most D1 schools. Heck, most d1 schools aren't making changes that are from the top down. Did you and the HC feel pressure? I've heard coaches say that same thing about the NAIA level, but the pay is so bad it isn't doable.
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 Many DIII coaches are not even full time. Many are also assts. in other sports, have admin duties, and/or have to teach classes for often 30-50K. Some do it for less. Many love the soccer (and some even the other stuff) but many would take a chance in DI to earn that Berkeley salary that Boyd just turned down..... The pressure is greater in DI of course with bigger budgets and higher profile but DI coaching is now as much about political skills and salesmanship than it is managing people and teaching soccer. Most longer-lasting DI coaches have worker-bee assistants that are waiting patiently. I think it's both performance pressure (to put out a winning team), and recruiting pressure (to spend the money wisely), that many DI coaches find uncomfortable and many DIII coaches don't always experience. And by the way, how many people would want to be a full time soccer coach in the US, even for 40K? how about 100K? Answer is in the 1000's probably so there is some supply/demand at work here also. Yes, I've been both a DI asst and a DIII head coach. The DI where I worked has had 4 coaches in 10 years!
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 Having done both, it's down to individual schools. There are D3's with big time pressure to win and D3's that are part-time, and there are D1's in the same boat at both ends (although the mix is different). One strange thing is that if you search the internet, track coaches make quite a bit more money generally (and often have less ancillary responsibilities - like teaching, etc.). FWIW, I think it's more about people and location. I haven't seen much difference between the range of ability in D3 coaches vs. D1 coaches, and a lot of times job security is about how you get on with admninistrators, whether someone has a buddy, and just dumb luck. I also think of Univ. of Chicago (D3) recruiting nationally and flying to play Brandeis and NYU on a weekend while Loyola (a D1 for instance) is on an 8 hour bus ride to play Wright St. and Youngstown St. The bigger divide is FT vs. PT coaches at every level (there are still a few PT D1's). It's VERY tough to compete as a PT'er when someone else is working at their school all the time.
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 Unlike in other sports, most Athletic Directors do not go out and find the top up and coming coaches for soccer. I live in Georgia and we have two excellent DII women's coaches here in the state. Both have proven track records and are highly regarded. One came from a succesful NAIA program and wasn't even granted an interview by two of the state's DI programs. He was hired by a start up in-state DII school and took them to the national tournament in their second season. He has played both the DI schools that wouldn't even give him an interview and beat them both in preseason games with his second year program.
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 Top D111 over average, low budget D1? No brainer, top D111 have better budgets, less stress, better students, etc. train in Italy, travel in planes, better dorms, food. More money for athletics, unrestricted academic scholarships.
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 Can you give any examples? Like school A versus school B? I totally understand what you are saying, but would love to know which Div III schools you speak of, and which Div I schools you mean.
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 Wash u in St. Louis, U of Chicago, Emory, NYU to name a few. Mainly mid-level conference D1 schools.
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 And which Div III schools beat these in terms of pay, budgets, overseas training, travel accomodations, etc?? I have no real knowledge of Div III schools, so I am interested in what you are saying.
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 Emory, Wash U, NYU, U of Chicago, etc. are D111 schools who are very serious about athletics. If you have a daughter or son who is a D1 potential athletic and whose falls in the upper 5% in their class. I think academics over rules ego. no future in soccer but wall street?
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 Greg Murphy has just accepted the position of Associate Head Coach at Santa Clara! The job posting for LMU is already up on the NCAA market web page: http://ncaa.thetask.com/market/jobs/soccer/index.php Very interesting move! Who would be the leading candidate at LMU now? Michelle Myers?
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 I understand Greg wants to dedicate more time with the National team program which is hard to do as a head coach. This arrangement at Santa Clara sounds like the "best of both worlds" for him.
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 Yeah, because the Ivies, Stanford, Duke, Cal etc are joke schools. BTW does anyone else find it ironic that a guy posting on education says,"If you have a daughter or son who is a D1 potential athletic and whose falls in the upper 5% in their class. I think academics over rules ego." Potential athletic? Whose falls? Over rules? You get one of those "Wall Street" educations? Why if you were a potential D1 athlete, would you prefer to go play in a lesser league when you could get an equal to superior education AND play soccer at a competitive level? I'm not saying that D3 is a bad option, but please don't paint the D3 as an equal athletic league AND a superior academic education. That's nonsense. And please hire an editor to read your posts before you post them.
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 I think what he/she is saying is that if your kid can't hook on at a Duke, UCLA, Stanford, ivies, Cal et al and is looking at a lower level D 1 they might be better off at a very good D III school where the education is top notch and the soccer compares to a low level D1. I kind of agree. I know of some very good DIII academic schools, but I can't buy into the arguement that those schools beat out D1 schools soccer to soccer. But no question, the academics at some of those schools are awesome, and if soccer is an "also ran" in your kid's life, go for the smarts. Also to consider is the trend that undergrad is not as vital in this day and age. I would tell my little genius, to go get school paid for, play at the highest level you can, do well academically and head to a prestigious grad program. On the LMU front...any chance he was feeling the heat from the administration and made this move to avoid getting let go? And if that is a possibility, will that affect Michelle's chances? The only reason I ask is that if anyone fits the bill to be promoted, she is it....long time assistant, lots of experience, etc...But to go to a national search made me wonder if the admin is less than pleased with their results? Any thoughts?
Re: Coaching Changes 2006-07 OK - this has spun away from coaching changes but I can't resist.... Let's be clear- the best college soccer in the nation is being played in DI and the worst is in DIII (don't now NAIA much). I think it's easiest to think of each division in 1/3s. There's a drop off after the top 40 or so in DI (real NCAA contenders), and again after 150 or so (competitive DI teams become "developing programs" to be PC) In DIII, the drop off is after the top 20 or so (NCAA contenders), and then after 100 or so. The bottom 250 or so DIII schools in the country are very average to below average by common soccer standards. Many with part-time coaching, no off-season effort, hs standard fields (or worse), etc. (don't know much about DII, they are all over the place talent wise) Now, the top 20 or so DIIIs any given year can certainly compete on the field with the bottom 1/3 of DI (sometimes in friendlies they do). And for prospects faced with that kind of college choice, there is an important decision to make - win conference titles in DIII and be a starter and All-Conference player or go 5-15 in DI with no post-season but maybe have a scholarship, nicer field, travel, equip, etc. For the clearly top-shelf soccer prospects who want a "full-time" college soccer experience, there just aren't many soccer reasons to stray away from the top 1/2 of DI really - especially with all the scholarship money flying around. For academic, personal, and financial reasons - there are tons of schools in every division that can provide a good competitive soccer experience while in college - since that should be what this is about. What does bug me is the terrible attrition rate at some DI's that infamously over-recruit - 14 freshmen and 4 srs - you see this lots of places (what happens to the other 10 kids?). I'd love to see Soccerbuzz do a "retention ranking" and see how many of their posted recruits end up earning how many starts at their initially signed schools. I guess the web could allow someone to do that research..... btw, I think the same above can be said about coaches as well - drop off after the top 40 or so in DI begins the "stepping" of college coaches. Some excellent D3 coaches and some dunderhead DI's for sure but there are lots more D3 coaches that are appalling. ps - coaches are also allowed to make big decisions for apparently random (or unpublished) personal reasons aren't they? Like Boyd or Wilkens.....