News: Club World Cup to Expand; Confederations Cup to End

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Nico Limmat, Sep 9, 2016.

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  1. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #876 Nico Limmat, Mar 24, 2019
    I don't see the US as a favorite to host the 2021 CWC anyway. With the 2026 WC taking place in the US already I predict FIFA going after other commercial markets they are interested in. Markets that feature prominently on the FIFA sponsor list.

    Yes, China. 7 of 19 corporate sponsors at Russia 2018 were Chinese.

    They are not eligible to bid for the WC until 2034. The 2021 CWC is probably the first bone thrown their way to bridge the gap. And Alibaba is presenting partner of the CWC until...wait for it...2022.
     
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  2. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    #877 Blondo, Mar 26, 2019
    They're now in Amsterdam: ECA chairman Andrea Agnelli (pictured) said his members were collectively agreed on boycotting the event as it stands now because of an already congested calendar, despite reports that one or two major clubs were privately in favour. - insideworldfootball.com

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-s...-to-play-in-2021-club-world-cup-idUKKCN1R71PW

    To which lengths is Infantino willing to go in order to push his expanded CWC through? Confed Cup already scrapped. Need a decision about 2022 soon. Can't keep your own flagship tournament hostage. Confeds need to finalize their WCQ formats and the draw should take place this July instead of postponing it. Is it out of the question to compromise wrt the CWC expansion? Like UEFA, CONMEBOL also prefers the December window because holding it in June interferes with the leagues. A good, old-fashioned horse trade about the calendar post-2024.
     
  3. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #878 Nico Limmat, Mar 30, 2019
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  4. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #879 Paul Calixte, Apr 4, 2019
    I will say this: since normally FIFA breaks up the prize money for participating teams to a threshold prize for participating and bonuses earned with games won and advancement in the tournament, I would hope that teams that qualify early show some gratitude and award that first bit of money (the participation prize) to the players who got them there.
     
  5. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #880 locoxriver, Apr 4, 2019
    Ha!

    Lets hear another one :D
     
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  6. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #881 Paul Calixte, Apr 9, 2019
    So, now that the December CWC is no more, European leagues will leave that break period fallow for players to recover...

    LOL no, the RFEF is already talking about making the Spanish Super Cup a Final 4 tournament in January :ROFLMAO:

    Hence me always taking claims of "we need to give players more rest" with a grain of salt.
     
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  7. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    #882 BocaFan, Apr 9, 2019
    The 7-team CWC was never a major burden anyway. The expanded CWC... well, that's another story.
     
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  8. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #883 EvanJ, Apr 10, 2019
    The Spanish Super Cup is held right before the season, and unlike the English Community Shield, Spain uses two legs. Moving it to January would lengthen the summer break for the clubs in the Super Cup, although they might just play more friendlies instead. I don't care much either way.

    Edit: I see that 2018 had one game in Morocco for the first time instead of two legs.
     
  9. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 8, 2003
    209, California
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    #884 unclesox, Apr 10, 2019
    The Supercopa is usually played around the second or third week of August with La Liga kicking off the weekend after.
    La Liga halts for the winter break for Christmas/New Years and re-starts the first weekend in January (as long as January 1st doesn't fall on a weekend).
    The two-legged Copa del Rey knockout ties also take up the whole of midweeks in January/early February (six consecutive midweeks).
    If the Supercopa is moved I can see them bringing forward the start of La Liga by a week or two. This would then open up space in January for this ridiculous four-team Super proposal, a proposal which includes switching the Copa del Rey to single one-off ties until the semifinals.
     
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  10. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #885 Nico Limmat, Apr 10, 2019
  11. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    #886 BocaFan, Apr 11, 2019
    Well, if Copa del Rey ties are reduced from two-legged rounds to single match KO then there really isn't a problem with fixture congestion at all. Easy to fit-in the 4-team Supercopa (which I agree sounds stupid). 5 midweek matchdays are suddenly freed-up if CdR has just one leg per round.
     
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  12. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #887 Paul Calixte, May 3, 2019
    @BocaFan @Blondo @EvanJ

    Ok, ok, a more realistic suggestion on my end: what about if, for those confederations with 3 berths in the new CWC and 4 different champions, they rank them based on their coefficient over the 4-year period in question and then have the two lowest-ranked sides play for the last berth?

    That way, no CL edition is inherently worth more or less than another at the outset; and if you have a Year 1 winner who's been back regularly to the CL since, they have a shot at qualifying directly based on consistent form over a fly-by-night winner showing up just before the CWC.
     
  13. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #888 EvanJ, May 3, 2019
    I'm okay with that, but Concacaf doesn't have coefficients for clubs or leagues. They have coefficients for spots such as MEX 1. AFC has coefficients for countries, but not for clubs. It could produce unique situations, such as a club already eliminated or that did not participate in the CL in progress clinching a CWC spot without a playoff when a club with a better coefficient gets eliminated or there is a repeat winner. For example, if the first three are won by X, Y, and Z; and the fourth Final is between Y and Z, all three will know before that game that they're going to the CWC. If the first three are won by X, Y, and Z; the fourth Final is between Y and Q; and X has the worst coefficient of the four; X will want Y to beat Q. The possibility of repeat winners is similar to how American MLS clubs can qualify for the CCL from the regular season, MLS Cup, or U.S. Open Cup.
     
  14. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #889 Paul Calixte, May 3, 2019
    Calculating them for clubs is straightforward, though, since we thankfully have the formula at our disposal.

    For instance, the 2018-21 cycle to date:

    CF Monterrey

    - 5 wins (15)
    - 2 draws (2)
    - 3 stages advanced (3)
    - 1 participation (4)
    - 1 championship (2)

    Total: 26 pts

    Chivas de Guadalajara

    - 5 wins (15)
    - 1 draw (1)
    - 3 stages advanced (3)
    - 1 participation (4)
    - 1 championship (2)

    Total: 25 pts

    Non-champions

    (Team: 2018 pts + 2019 pts = Total)

    Tigres UANL: 12 + 20 = 32
    New York Red Bulls: 17 + 11 = 28
    Toronto FC: 21 + 5 = 26
    Santos Laguna: 0 + 21 = 21
    Club América: 17 + 0 = 17

    ---

    For instance, (and for the sake of simplicity), let's say that Tigres :eek: and Toronto :eek::eek::eek: win the next two CCLs with Monterrey and Chivas failing to qualify for either. Then, Tigres and Toronto would get direct berths to the CWC, while Monterrey and Chivas would enter a playoff for the last berth.
     
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  15. tfrunited

    tfrunited Member

    May 7, 2019
    #890 tfrunited, May 7, 2019
    I think it would be much better to replace the current six continental championships with these four:

    African Champions League
    32 champions from these countries qualify:

    Nigeria
    Ethiopia
    Egypt
    DR Congo
    South Africa
    Tanzania
    Kenya
    Sudan
    Algeria
    Uganda
    Morocco
    Mozambique
    Ghana
    Angola
    Côte d'Ivoire
    Madagascar
    Cameroon
    Niger
    Burkina Faso
    Mali
    Malawi
    Zambia
    Somalia
    Senegal
    Chad
    Zimbabwe
    Rwanda
    Tunisia
    Guinea
    Benin
    Burundi
    South Sudan

    American Champions League
    32 champions from these countries qualify:

    United States
    Brazil
    Mexico
    Colombia
    Argentina
    Canada
    Peru
    Venezuela
    Chile
    Ecuador
    Guatemala
    Cuba
    Bolivia
    Haiti
    Dominican Republic
    Honduras
    Paraguay
    Nicaragua
    El Salvador
    Costa Rica
    Panama
    Puerto Rico
    Uruguay
    Jamaica
    Trinidad and Tobago
    Guyana
    Suriname
    The Bahamas
    Belize
    Barbados
    St. Lucia
    St. Vincent and the Grenadines

    Asian Champions League
    32 champions from these countries qualify:

    China
    India
    Indonesia
    Pakistan
    Bangladesh
    Japan
    Philippines
    Vietnam
    Iran
    Thailand
    Myanmar
    Korea
    Afghanistan
    Iraq
    Uzbekistan
    Malaysia
    Nepal
    Saudi Arabia
    Yemen
    DPR Korea
    Australia
    Taiwan
    Sri Lanka
    Syria
    Cambodia
    Tajikistan
    United Arab Emirates
    Papua New Guinea
    Hong Kong
    Jordan
    Kyrgyzstan
    Laos

    European Champions League
    32 champions from these countries qualify:

    Russia
    Germany
    Turkey
    France
    England
    Italy
    Spain
    Ukraine
    Poland
    Romania
    Kazakhstan
    Netherlands
    Belgium
    Greece
    Czech Republic
    Portugal
    Sweden
    Azerbaijan
    Hungary
    Belarus
    Austria
    Switzerland
    Israel
    Bulgaria
    Serbia
    Denmark
    Finland
    Slovak Republic
    Scotland
    Norway
    Ireland
    Croatia

    The other nations can add their best clubs in one of the leagues above. This way, we can see a true CHAMPIONS league again.

    The four continental champions can then play each other in the FIFA Club World Cup to determine the world champions.
     
  16. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member+

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    #891 AlbertCamus, May 7, 2019
    128 teams. They could host it at Wimbledon.
     
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  17. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #892 Paul Calixte, May 7, 2019
    Ah, the old Champions Cup set-up. Sadly, those days are long gone, my friend :( No way in hell UEFA would pass on the runners-up in La Liga and the EPL in favor of the Finnish and Azeri champs.
     
  18. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    #893 Century's Best, May 7, 2019
    FIFA has announced the Club World Cup will be held in 2019 with the same 7-team format of the past several years. In June, the host nation will be announced.
     
  19. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #894 Nico Limmat, May 7, 2019
    Source?
     
  20. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    #895 Century's Best, May 7, 2019
    This page, from UOL, a major Brazilian news portal.
     
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  21. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #896 Paul Calixte, May 7, 2019
    If FIFA's actually planning on having a 7-team CWC in 2020, then here we have Infantino talking out of both sides of his mouth. Wasn't the whole idea that he would use his Thanos glove and disappear the current CWC and the Confed Cup from the calendar, so that the new 24-team tournament would have a net-zero effect on the # of fixtures for elite teams? I thought that FIFA was basically stuck with the 2019 CWC, but would drop the 2020 edition.
     
  22. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    #897 Thezzaruz, May 12, 2019
    And we're all very surprised... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
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  23. italiancbr

    italiancbr Member

    Apr 15, 2007
    #898 italiancbr, May 16, 2019
    Too much time and energy is being devoted to expanding a CWC that will always have limited potential. Even an increase to 24 clubs would probably only involve representation from around 15 countries and most likely result in an all-UEFA tournament from the quarterfinals on. This would underscore how much of a gap there actually is between top European clubs and clubs from the rest of the world, and would probably diminish interest in top-tier competitions from other confederations. Creating more competitive games for national teams, many of which actually need them, and grouping countries based on results would be much more appealing for fans, which is why a Global Nations League is where the focus and resources should be placed.
     
  24. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #899 locoxriver, May 16, 2019
    The disparity will likely happen given the fact that only one team will make it out of each group. I would propose 2 teams making it out of each group, even though that would mean a majority of the teams would advance. It would provide for more confederational diversity and an increased likelyhood of an upset happening since the knockout stages are only dependent on 90 minutes of football (as opposed to dependency on multiple matches in the group stage)

    However I figure the real reason for expanding the CWC was precisely to diminish the participation of AFC/OFC/CAF teams and have more powerhouse European teams facing each others in knockouts. Just look at the last CWC -- how many people actually tuned in to watch Al Ain vs. Real Madrid? Yet if Real Madrid is facing, say, Liverpool or Man CIty in even QFs in 2021, they'll have probably 10x the audience, even if it's not a title-deciding match like the Al Ain game was.

    Basically the idea of an expanded CWC opening the doors to more international participation is a facade for creating a new all-European knockout tournament (probably with the exception of 1-2 South American sides) that will capture similar global attention as the Champions League, something the old CWC clearly could not do
     
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  25. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #900 Nico Limmat, Jun 3, 2019
    Qatar gets the 2019 and 2020 CWC as a Confederations Cup replacement.

    Given today's announcement I am glad we get two editions to say goodbye to the current CWC format. It also gives FIFA a way out if it can't get the expanded format off the ground in 2021. In that scenario they can just keep the annual format.

    And from a sporting perspective it also means the rest of the world gets two more opportunities to steal a world title.

    Go ahead, bet your life savings on China being host in 2021. :D

    After the 2021 edition I would like to see the CWC always awarded to a confederation other than the World Cup host. So for 2025 it would exclude CONCACAF. I for one wouldn't mind a CWC in South America that year.
     
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