Clint Dempsey retires

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Yoshou, Aug 29, 2018.

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  1. glennaldo_sf

    glennaldo_sf Member+

    Houston Dynamo, Penang FC, Al Duhail
    United States
    Nov 25, 2004
    Doha, Qatar
    Club:
    FL Fart Vang Hedmark
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's kind of a shame that the goal scoring record is a deuce... erm, I mean as opposed to the Deuce!
     
  2. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    I dunno, it strikes me as kinda fitting, actually.

    Pulisic will most likely eventually break it (and probably Donovan's assists record) anyhow.
     
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  3. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    A singular player in our history, and one I do not really expect ever to be "replaced" with a "like." Deuce was unique.
     
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  4. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    He's really the only player in our history I feel tempted to occasionally compare him to, actually. Both southern, both tricky ballers, both with punk-ass me-first combative attitudes (though Dempsey was the more professional and hard-working by far), both with an amazingly instinctive nose for goal.
     
  5. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    #105 schrutebuck, Aug 30, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
    This is a comparison that makes sense:

    Both are poachers that have always been surprisingly effective in the air.

    Cahill - 68 goals in 278 appearances at Everton.
    Dempsey - 72 goals in 275 appearances at Fulham and Tottenham.

    Both have strong international scoring records. Five World Cup goals for Cahill, four for Dempsey, and victories and goals in continental competitions.
     
  6. phillyfan593

    phillyfan593 Member

    Jul 20, 2011
    You probably missed Landon Donovan’s 2002 and 2010 World Cup then.
     
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  7. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT
    Now that's a scary thoughts. How many goals does Pylisic have already? 8?

    And just imagined he has 15 more years to catch up.
     
  8. USA-Zebuel

    USA-Zebuel Member+

    Mar 26, 2013
    Club:
    Colón de Santa Fe
    ....in the form of a rap video!!!
     
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  9. USA-Zebuel

    USA-Zebuel Member+

    Mar 26, 2013
    Club:
    Colón de Santa Fe
    I got to see him live once for Fulham at Stamford bridge. Scored the tying goal in the dying moments. The Chelsea fans did not appreciate that I jumped out of my chair yelling. Lol
    He always had that sheer force of will to score when it mattered. USMNT will feel a little empty for awhile.
    Maybe he can get a
    Consultant gig teaching the young bucks to talk shit and smack note pads!
     
  10. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Needed to be better against Kahn. Against Ghana, he scored the pk that Dempsey earned but didn't do much, otherwise.

    This a Dempsey thread. I didn't bring up Donovan, but whatever.
     
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  11. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Yes, but the next 8 or 10 or 15 years is a long time for all sorts of things to happen. Remember Mike Bradley once looked on a pace to obliterate the caps record, and now if you ask me he's going to fall well short of it. Injuries happen. Weird club situations happen. Mental/emotional issues happen.

    But yeah, if you ask me, Pulisic will be the best American that ever played the game when his time to hang them up eventually comes. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

    Dempsey was great. Not quite our greatest, but great, and a compelling player to watch and follow.
     
  12. phillyfan593

    phillyfan593 Member

    Jul 20, 2011
    Dempsey needed to be better against the Ghana goalie. Lol. You said Dempsey played at a higher level than anyone at a World Cup. That’s not true.
     
  13. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    He earned the PK. The numbers don't lie. I'm sure there's Dempsey vs Donovan u can continue on, however.
     
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  14. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT

    Of course. Assuming he stays healthy and continues to perform as expected.

    As for Bradley, he decided to grab the BIG MONEY and chose the easy lifestyle. Therefore his game regressed and his productivity diminished. Had he continued to stay in Serie A or a top Euro league and fight it out every day, I am confident he'll still be a very good player for us.
     
  15. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Grrr, that's your opinion. Both players were fantastic.

    Donovan reached greater heights at the World Cup, in '02, and he had the instamoment against Algeria in '10, but he also had a largely awful performance in '06.

    Dempsey didn't have those low's. He scored in all three World Cups, and he scored crucial goals repeatedly (potential game changer in '06 ruined by the ref, got us the draw vs England, scored what should have been the winner against Algeria negating the need for Donovan's heroics, but horrific reffing lead us to being jobbed against Slovenia and then again against Algeria, opener in the early moments against Ghana to throw off the budding curse, then scored what should've been the winner against Portugal, then nearly scored the equalizer vs Belgium (slightly heavy touch after a too hot pass through to him).

    Nobody's trashing either guy here, they are both miles better then anyone else we've had in an attacking sense other than maybe McBride, whose clearly a step behind them, and maybe Ramos and Reyna who weren't at their level and also didn't have the same roles.

    The US doesn't get any of the glory it got w/o one, the other, or both.

    But I do think it's really difficult to argue that either is better than the other at the World Cup because both had a huge impact, and while one had a greater cup than the other had (Donovan), one also was more consistently impactful at the Cup game to game w/o the critically subpar performances that cost us (Dempsey).

    I think what matters most is that every major success we had involved them when they were present:

    The '02 run doesn't happen without Donovan.

    The '06 run might have been saved by Dempsey if not for a critical ref error that happened moments after his equalizer.

    The '09 Confed Cup run doesn't happen without glorious goals from Dempsey, and goals and passes from Donovan.

    The '10 World Cup run doesn't happen without Dempsey's goal against England, and forced stop that rebounded back to Donovan, and drawn PK against Ghana, nor does it happen w/o Donovan grabbing the Slovenia game with both hands early in the 2nd half, nor does it happen w/o Donovan's sixth sense run, and finish off the rebound vs Algeria.

    The '14 Cup is a total disaster w/o Dempsey's goals against Ghana and Portugal.

    That, to me, tells the story.

    And the reason I lean slightly towards Dempsey is because as you can see, once Dempsey started getting minutes, he impacted every tournament. Donovan didn't, his '06 was a tournament even he has mentioned as a down point in his career, which considering his performances in the run up to it, remains one of the more inexplicable performances from a great US player. I kinda chalk it up to Reyna and Donovan not having clearly outlined roles, Donovan deferring too much to Reyna, and lastly, and crucially, every forward we had developed worth a damn between 2000-2006 other than McBride (who was developed in the nineties) was lost to injury and never the same by the time we got to '06 which is why we were rolling out such horrifically average or worse options alongside McBride in the lead up to that tournament and as a result, our attack was largely neutered. Dempsey definitely should've started every game in that tournament. We probably make the knockouts if he had.
     
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  16. Tony in Quakeland

    Jan 27, 2003
    Pleasant Hill, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We don't get to Ghana without him sparking the comeback in the second game or his awesome run and finish against Algeria. (And while LD's 2006 was disappointing, his game against Italy was one of the great games any field player ever had in a US shirt.)

    This is a Dempsey thread, but I think arguing USMNT GOAT is pointless. (And yes, anyone who knows me from here knows I think it was LD.) The reason is that we need different kinds of great players. Comparing Dempsey and Donovan helps us understand the differences and illustrates why they were a great engine together.

    The way I always thought of them was that Donovan was a guy who reinforced and improved your structure. He made other guys better, was unselfish (see his assists, although sometimes this was a fault), did great two-way work (see WC Italy 2006 - Totti: "Number 10 was everywhere"), cared passionately about soccer in this country (again, at times, too much and let it overwhelm him on occasion.)

    Dempsey was more solitary. Yes, he did two way work, most especially 2009/2010 when Bradley used LD & CD in similar ways. But he was most effective as a lone gunman. He found spots, turned up and poached, made great late runs and famously "tried shit". Like any goal score, trying shit was great when it worked. When it didn't you could point to passes he should of made, or point to how he tended to drift into other players space (saw this more on club than country)

    While my preference for building a team would always be to start with a Donovan type (and reinforced by my memory of how good he was at his best, and how menacing he was in WC 2002) the bottom line is that if they remain tied on Nats goals, that is fitting. Together they defined an important era for US soccer.

    I don't see a similar dynamic on the horizon, but that's okay. The coming generation is going to be better top to bottom, side to side. We may never need to ask two guys to carry as much as they did.

    So I have my preference, others have theirs. There is no need to reduce one to promote the other. We needed them both and we had them both and when they were at their best together, they complemented each others strengths and covered each others flaws.

    We were damn lucky to have them. Now let's move on to the kids...
     
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  17. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Dempsey vs Donovan

    It's our Gerrard vs Lampard/Marvel vs DC
     
  18. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    I don't know if it's been mentioned but Tab strongly hinted he would like to see Deuce with a YNT. I think that would be a great landing spot for him. Instill some fire in the young'uns.
     
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  19. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    You're right. This is a Dempsey thread.

    No one 'reduced' Donovan, until he was brought into the thread. The comeback against a lowly Slovenia was a group effort. MB and Donovan got a goal. Cherundolo and Altidore got the assists.

    No goals and assists against Italy.

    If a 'reinforcement of team structure' were needed then John O'brien would be the player to go with. LD was too mentally inconsistent.

    Scholars and fans of every sport argue over the relative merits of players. There is nothing wrong with doing so. In fact, much of your post is simply an argument in favor of Donovan. The only problem is that this is a Dempsey retirement thread.
     
  20. phillyfan593

    phillyfan593 Member

    Jul 20, 2011
    Giving Dempsey than the upper hand because of anything of the National Team is simply ridiculous. I’m sorry. If you think Dempsey is better because of accomplishments outside of the National Team, I can see that. But Landon Donovan was a better player when wearing the USA jersey then when Clint Dempsey was. Period. It really isn’t a debate. Landon Donovan made players better around him better. Altidore is a main example. Who has Clint made better around him? He was a great goal scorer. Didn’t offer much else after that. He’s like the Kobe Bryant. And Landon is like the LeBron James. Analytics also show USA has really missed Donovan since he has retired.


    Dempsey had lows in the World Cup. Donavans might have been worse. Maybe. But Donovan’s highs on the National Team are a lot higher.

    If you want to argue who is better based on club. I think that’s an awesome debate to have. But if we’re going to have a debate he was better wearing the USA jersey, I just don’t think it’s close.
     
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  21. phillyfan593

    phillyfan593 Member

    Jul 20, 2011
    This is a Dempsey thread but we are calling Dempsey something he isn’t.

    Donovan was the best player in that Slovenia game and it was close. He was Superman
     
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  22. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Argue it in another thread then, instead of posting classless bile.
     
  23. Iforgotwhat8wasfor

    Jun 28, 2007
    Chad said it already, but it bears reposting.
     
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  24. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    I'd rather we stopped the Superman vs Batman stuff and simply feted Dempsey as what he deservedly is, an American legend. (But of course it's kind of inevitable, too.) For my part, I'll say this about Dempsey that I'd shamefully neglected to add before: he's the best pure goalscoring American we've yet had.
     
  25. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    It'd be great if the inevitability took place in the appropriate thread.
     

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