JOB, Most talented USMNT player ever, 1st in my heart. I prefer Dempsey's style, grit and heart. I respect his club career a lot more than Donovan's and I have always hated the Quakes and the Galaxy and of course their best player, as an MLS fan. Having said all of that, the best USMNT player of all time is Landon Donovan and I don't actually think it is that close. As scorers it is pretty much a dead heat, maybe Dempsey has an advantage there. In every other facet it is Donovan all day, every day. Donovan elevated everyone around him, played fantastic defense and when hope looked lost, when the chips were on the table, or you need one man to emasculate an entire country like Algeria, Donovan will come through for you every time.
I just don't think he was very motivated to succeed there at the time. He was / is pretty open about it. He's said a few times he didn't really know that much about foreign soccer. I guess he could be lying about that, but it's not like Donovan would've grown up watching European soccer on cable like kids today.
Clint is almost there in the goal department. Now only 41 away from surpassing Donovan in assists! I love Clint and want to honor the guy, but we don't have to drag down Landon all the time in the process to boost others artificially up with a similar background. Donovan is still doing a lap and a half around everybody in the assist department, while retaining an edge, for the time being, in goals. Not to mention he was better defensively. It's like comparing Mark Messier to Wayne Gretzky. There is no comparison. And this is ignoring Donovan's career was artificially cut short not far from his prime because the usnt at the time was run by a prejudicial tyrant using him as an example, even though in our history he was the best one in terms of a role model. Pulisic may well be developing into a better one for the future, but it's still VERY early to say that. Some people self apparently want to graft club accomplishments to this, when that's a separate issue to this particular argument, and it's mostly apples and oranges anyway. One chose to transfer overseas and the other to grow the league domestically. He did particularly well in that league and won a lot of championships. The MVP trophy was named after him. He did more per season there than Clint. And while he struggled to make an impression in a different league at bigger clubs than Clint typically played at, you could argue for the limited time Donovan was in England he was more impactful. Some hold a grudge he didn't play in Europe for an extended period and decided to remain in Europe. That's their bias. I would have liked to have seen him play a couple years in England, more than anything to shut detractors up, but his life, his prerogative. There is no debate that Donovan indeed was the better national team player. As far as for their clubs, that's where the debate starts. I'd still argue Donovan, with the nt performances as somewhat of a backup because most of the time they played in different leagues. But when they played in the same one, Donovan out-played him in MLS, and arguably in his brief time in England as well. Landon is still the man. Hopefully Pulisic surpasses him for club and country. Right now he's on that path. Some want to jump the gun because they have the out with the old and in with the new attitude and because he plays on a big European club which to them is the be all end all, pretty much no matter how long you do it.
what are all the assists that Donovan had? I'm curious how many are in qualifying or tournaments vs friendlies?
You mean this record? LD World Cup goals: 5 CD World Cup goals: 4 I think there might be a credible argument if Dempsey meets / surpasses that goal tally next year (which I think is a real possibility frankly) but it's patently absurd to even have the discussion about Dempsey when he doesn't lead Donovan in a single category yet. Even if Dempsey should surpass Donovan as a big tournament goalscorer (a big possibility), I'd still argue that he doesn't have the all-around performances Donovan does AND that Donovan actually scored more impressive and attractive big tournament goals. Dempsey doesn't have any goals that show as much individual talent as Donovan's vs. Brazil (in CC), vs. Slovenia, vs. Algeria. That is my criteria: If you listed the top 5 best NT goals in terms of timeliness, strength of opponent / difficulty, and overall attractiveness, I'd think most of those would go to Donovan. Similarly, if you looked at the 5 best performances with the same criteria, again Donovan would have the top 2 or 3 (Pulisic is doing to make the conversation real interesting very soon). That actually might be a pretty fun exercise.
Yes, making arguments like Dempsey was the better big tourney player and he scored in 3 World Cup, are quite erroneous or arbitrary. Donovan still scored more in World Cups. He was artificially robbed of another chance. Contributed in terms of his passing and defense more. Got the furthest in the WC, to the quarters, and it should have been further. They both made the Confed Cup final together, making impacts. Donovan never played in Copa America because our federation just decided to effectively not compete in that tourney during his career, unfortunately. Donovan scored and assisted a lot more against Mexico during their respective careers. We certainly acted like those were big games immediately before and after they were played. The biggest one arguably was the Confed Cup playoff, where Dempsey didn't show up. It's just a total nothing argument against Donovan.
Dempsey's goal creation record across 1 CC, 1 CA, and 3 WCs is superior to LD's across 2 CCs and 3 WCs. Donovan didn't play in WC'14. LD is the King of Concacaf, though.
people keep saying Donovan was robbed of a 2014 WC. No player is assured of any spot (with perhaps exception being Ronaldo/Messi) Donovan had 3 World Cups. 5 goals in 12 matches. Dempsey also had 3. 4 goals in 10 matches. I believe Dempsey is rated as having more assists. Now of course Donovan probably had more of an influence in the WC's that he played in. but where was he in 06?
Any player should be assured of a spot if they're reportedly the 2nd best player in camp, only having recently turned 32, eventually that year being the leader on the team that won the MLS Cup, and at that time indisputably the best national teamer of all time. He beyond earned it. Ceremonial inclusion may have been playing Donovan in the '18 WC, like it may end up being for Dempsey. I don't see an assist recorded for the World Cup. You're talking about a marginal advantage one way or another in the World Cup in a small sample. By that measurement, you could probably come to some crazy conclusions of which footballer was better than which. Tony Sanneh was our best player at the '02 World Cup of the outfield players, probably the only one ahead of Landon. But he still had a considerably worse career than Eddie Pope, Brian McBride, Steve Cherundolo and guys like that. The Mexico games, considering the amount we played against them, really expands the sample. And one can't just dismiss that as just being CONCACAF. Because they are invested in winning those and they're as good as or better than the average team we'd see at the World Cup and Copa America.
He should have never taken that sabbatical. Remember the English coach at the time dropping Beckham from England (due to his move to MLS) though he did impress the next manager enough to receive further call-ups albeit in a supporting role/ I do wonder if JK had brought Donovan, would he have been a super-sub. It's not so marginal. I mean even Zusi had 2 assists in Brazil. Though it's so many who claim "well Dempsey can have the scoring but Donovan will keep the assisting". Dempsey has both at World Cups. the highest tournament for the sport. Though Donovan had 2 better tournaments than Dempsey did. Though naturally Donovan had more to his game than Dempsey. For me Dempsey is the Best though
The Reyna-Donovan combination did not play as much as most people might remember, because Reyna flat out didn't play much of the 2006 cycle. By my count, Donovan started 50 matches that cycle, and Reyna only started alongside Donovan 18 times including friendlies (mostly the 03 Gold Cup, the early WCQs in 2004, and the 2006 World Cup). This is how I'm seeing it. After that, you get players like Friedel, Keller, Pope, Reyna, Bradley, McBride, Cherundolo, Balboa, etc.
what did McBride do to warrant a top 10 placement? Just curious Cherundolo might just be most underrated US players ever. Hope he gets his adoration at Hannover
Most skilled, Hugo Perez but Dempsey is a great player as well. From what I have seen; 1. Hugo 2. Dempsey 3.Pulisic on his way Reyna and Ramos somewhere in there. Donovan could have better numbers if it wassnt for Klinsmann's amateurism
Best USMNT professional field player: Clint Dempsey by a country mile. Best USMNT contributor, field player: Donovan by a country mile Best USMNT player ever...
And yet, to make your argument, you include for Dempsey's benefit a tournament played on home soil where we ran it up against a CONCACAF foe (the '16 Copa), while only comparing Donovan's tournaments played outside CONCACAF. Weird. It's also relevant that Dempsey did a total disappearing act in all three matches he played against top squads in that tournament, with the US failing to produce a single goal. It's not good evidence of Clint somehow having an edge against top squads or in "big" tournaments. Try again.
Donovan not going to the '14WC was a cruel twist of ironic fate that sometimes happens in sports, that leaves us wondering "what could have been"? Somewhat like Dempsey not playing a significant role in obtaining his first club championship, which was also Seattle's first championship. Unfairly, both players' legacies will be impacted by things they really had no control over. That's sports I guess.
I'm pretty certain (though my opinion) that had they released a 23 for that squad instead of 11, Dempsey would have made it. 3 goals/3 assists in 6 matches.
True though Dempsey def had an influence on the first half of the season for the club. 8 goals/1 assist in 17 league matches. He basically walked the club up the street to the championship. Morris and the rest helped them walk the steps inside