Clint Dempsey appreciation

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Real Corona, Jul 8, 2015.

  1. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    He also had 2 more matches then Dempsey. But Dempsey has more accredited assists
     
  2. CeltTexan

    CeltTexan Member+

    Sep 21, 2000
    Houston, TX USA
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This.
    Duece also hit the upright against Algeria and had a very solid game that day. To blast Donovan's cross off of the keeper who spilled Dempsey's shot...to which Donovan was Johnny on the Spot and fired home in that epic memory we all have.

    The tie breaker for me is who scored in consecutive World Cups. Donovan never did.
    Dempsey is one of 23 other mortals to have scored in three consecutive World Cups.
     
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  3. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    The tie breaker for me is Donovan's five World Cup goals to Dempsey's four. Lando scored more, period (unless I'm hugely misremembering something, that is). And let's be fair, if we're going to downplay what Donovan did, let's not forget that Dempsey got an absolute gift of a goal from England.

    I do hope that Dempsey matches or breaks Donovan's record, though.
     
  4. Footsatt

    Footsatt Member+

    Apr 8, 2008
    Michigan
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Old guys don't lose aerobic fitness as much as they lose a step (or agility). Aerobic fitness stays fairly level until your 50's.

    This chart shows the average finishing time for 3 different marathons. Take the NY City marathon as an example and notice how the times don't change much at all between U30 to 49.
    NYC U30 = 4.08
    NYC 30 - 39 = 4.11
    NYC 40 - 49 = 4.15

    That is a 7 second difference between a 49 year old and a U30 runner. The bigger change is at 50 - 59 (19 second difference), and 60 - 69 (almost a minute difference).


    [​IMG]

    My point is making the 2018 team wont depend on if Dempsey has the stamina to compete, what matters is if he slows down and losses some agility.
     
  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    If goalscoring at a World Cup is your only measure of a player....................................

    These are two are very different types of players.
    Dempsey is more of a finisher. Donovan was more of a playmaker that could also finish.

    To each his own. There's no right or wrong answer.

    Donovan is the only player in the history of international football with 150 caps, 50 goals, and 50 assists.

    When Landon Donovan was "on his game" in the mid-to-late 2000s, he was incredible. If you ask me, his peaks were higher than Dempsey's peaks for the USMNT. He had a slow fade from the end of 2010 until his retirement.

     
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  6. Footsatt

    Footsatt Member+

    Apr 8, 2008
    Michigan
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just to clarify... this stat is recorded history. I believe the assist stat is a recent addition for FIFA, for example they started recording assist in 1986 for the World Cup.
     
  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Its also true that a great number of the 49 players that have scored 50 international goals are from the modern era. Mostly because guys play a lot more games these days that in the pre-1986 timeframe.

    A guy like Stern John can score 50 international goals. You don't have to actually be that talented to do it. You just have to be a good player with longevity. Particularly from a marginal team. Like say Bader Al-Mutawa of Kuwait who has now gone over the 50 goal mark.

    What makes Donovan unique is the assists and the goals together....................which is unprecented since they started recording the stat. A guy like Zlatan Ibrahimovic doesn't rack up both goals and assists. He, like Dempsey, is a goalscorer.
     
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  8. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Stern John was my favorite Columbus Crew player.
     
  9. matabala

    matabala Member+

    Sep 25, 2002
    These numbers mean little without further dissection. How large was the sample group of 30 yr olds? How many 49 yr olds vs. 40 yr olds in the 40-49 age group? In my experience, the largest group in these endurance events, by a long "distance", is the 40-49 yr olds. They also tend to be the most experienced, motivated and best trained. The 30-somethings could well be largely comprised of first-time marathoners. You also need to consider that these numbers are NOT those of elite level athletes. Don't kid yourself, at the highest level, the performance differences between a 30 yr old and a 50 yr old are substantial.
     
  10. Footsatt

    Footsatt Member+

    Apr 8, 2008
    Michigan
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you are looking for elite athelete here are the world record times by age...

    Notice from 18 year olds to 42 year olds there is just a 4 second difference.

    Don't kid yourself... it's not endurance that gives out at 35ish it's agility and recovery time between matches..

    18y223d 2:04:32 Tsegay Mekonen Assefa (ETH) 15 Jun 1995 24 Jan 2014 Dubai UAE
    19y239d 2:04:48 Berhanu Shiferaw Tolcha(ETH) 31 May 1993 25 Jan 2013 Dubai UAE
    20y221d 2:04:46 Tsegay Mekonen Assefa (ETH) 15 Jun 1995 22 Jan 2016 Dubai UAE
    21y 30d
    2:04:23 Ayele Abshiro Biza (ETH) 28 Dec 1990 27 Jan 2012 Dubai UAE
    22y249d
    2:04:52 Feyisa Lelisa Gemechu (ETH) 01 Feb 1990 07 Oct 2012 Chicago IL USA
    23y297d
    2:04:24 Tesfaye Abera Dibaba (ETH) 31 Mar 1992 22 Jan 2016 Dubai UAE
    24y318d
    2:04:52 Negesse Endeshaw Shumi (ETH) 13 Mar 1988 25 Jan 2013 Dubai UAE
    25y266d
    2:04:38 Tsegay Kebede Tadesse (ETH) 15 Jan 1987 07 Oct 2012 Chicago IL USA
    26y207d
    2:03:38 Patrick Makau (KEN) 02 Mar 1985 25 Sep 2011 Berlin GER
    27y320d
    2:04:28 Sammy Kitwara Kirop (KEN) 26 Nov 1986 12 Oct 2014 Chicago IL USA
    28y328d
    2:04:04.6 Eliud Kipchoge (KEN) 05 Nov 1984 29 Sep 2013 Berlin GER
    29y351d
    2:03:13.3 Emanuel Mutai Kipchirchir(KEN)12 Oct 1984 28 Sep 2014 Berlin GER
    30y249d
    2:02:56.4 Dennis Kipruto Kimetto (KEN) 22 Jan 1984 28 Sep 2014 Berlin GER
    31y171d 2:03:05 Eliud Kipchoge (KEN) 05 Nov 1984 24 Apr 2016 London ENG
    32y 29d 2:04:29 Wilson Kipsang Kiprotich(KEN)15 Mar 1982 13 Apr 2014 London ENG
    33y 42d 2:04:47 Wilson Kipsang Kiprotich(KEN)15 Mar 1982 26 Apr 2015 London ENG
    34y165d 2:04:26 Haile Gebreselasie (ETH) 18 Apr 1973 30 Sep 2007 Berlin GER
    35y163d 2:03:58.2 Haile Gebreselasie (ETH) 18 Apr 1973 28 Sep 2008 Berlin GER
    36y339d 2:05:27 Jaouad Gharib (MAR) 22 May 1972 26 Apr 2009 London ENG
    37y128d 2:06:16 Mark Kiptoo Kosgei (KEN) 21 Jun 1976 27 Oct 2013 Frankfurt GER
    38y109d 2:06:05 Mariko Kiplagat Kipchumba(KEN) 04 Jul 1974 21 Oct 2012 Reims FRA
    39y336d 2:07:44 Jaouad Gharib (MAR) 22 May 1972 22 Apr 2012 London ENG
    40y236d 2:08:46 Andres Espinosa (MEX) 04 Feb 1963 28 Sep 2003 Berlin GER
    41y301d 2:08:42 Kenneth Mburu Mungara (KEN) 07 Sep 1973 05 Jul 2015 Gold Coast AUS
    42y209d 2:08:38 Kenneth Mburu Mungara (KEN) 07 Sep 1973 03 Apr 2016 Milan ITA
     
  11. matabala

    matabala Member+

    Sep 25, 2002
    The 18-42 age range is NOT the same rubric as the 30-50 you initially quoted.

    The 30 yr old marathon time is 2:02:56. What is the record marathon time for a 50 yr old?

    2:19:29

    "Old guys don't lose aerobic fitness as much as they lose a step (or agility). Aerobic fitness stays fairly level until your 50's."

    That's an 8% lose in efficiency for the 50 yr old. Not bad

    I won't even get into the PED and East African marathoners (who hold the overwhelming majority of these records) question.
     
  12. TheLostUniversity

    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Feb 4, 2007
    Greater Boston
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sling enough Beer and blindness is yours.
     
  13. TheLostUniversity

    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Feb 4, 2007
    Greater Boston
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Landon Donovan 57 goals, 58 assists for USMNT
    Clint Dempsey has [I think] 52 goals, 16 assists?

    There is a very good argument to be made that Clint Dempsey is the most dangerous/successful scoring threat we've had in the modern era. But field player as a whole? No.
     
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  14. Footsatt

    Footsatt Member+

    Apr 8, 2008
    Michigan
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #240 Footsatt, Jun 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
    Old guys in soccer are 35. They retire at this age because they lose agility not stamina.

    Edit: and we agree I said fitness stays fairly level until your 50s. The 8% drop shows this.
     
  15. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    well also as Zlatan focused more of his time and performances for his club team rather than pointless friendlies. His goal scoring rate has surged since becoming captain of Sweden back in 2010.

    Donovan played in a bunch of friendlies with the B squads of Scandinavia and CONCACAF minnows. It was easy for him to score and assist in those.
     
  16. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    Injuries and healing also.
     
  17. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Donovan's WC goals/assists vs Dempsey's.

    http://www.transfermarkt.com/landon.../spieler/68/hauptwettbewerb/WM/verein_id/3505

    http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/clin...ieler/27577/hauptwettbewerb/WM/verein_id/3505
     
  18. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    You're downplaying the influence Donovan had against all sorts of opponents, in all sorts of matches including the most important to a serious degree. He was our best player, quite simply and clearly, and his absence is a hole that we have never been able to fill since he's left. This is the Dempsey thread and he's worthy of a lot of appreciation from all of us, particularly now in some of the very best form of his career (last I checked 2nd in the tournament's Golden Boot race only behind the #1 player on the planet, although the Chile game probably changed that), so I won't go into the other player or downplay Dempsey's own abilities and achievements, but this train of posting is going well overboard into the territory of the poorly-supported in fact.
     
  19. saxman

    saxman Member

    Nov 12, 2005
    Frederick,Maryland
    As the goals/assists of Donovan and Dempsey are argued and analyzed, anyone care to do a bit of research? Donovan was someone who started his career up top and was then moved to midfield. I believe once Bradley took over he was no longer used as a forward. Dempsey started in the midfield (correct?) and over time got moved up top. How many games did Landon play at forward vs midfield? Same for Dempsey? How does that effect the argument?
     
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  20. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You might be right re: assists and I mis-remembered. But even still, Donovan has had better individual performances in big games that I doubt Dempsey will ever match. For instance, as good as Dempsey's been in this tournament, his individual performances haven't been as good as Donovan's best, IMO. In 2010, Donovan was involved in nearly every chance created for the US, for example, even if he didn't assist or score directly.

    Dempsey earning the PK vs. Ghana? Donovan flick-on sent him through on that play. Dempsey's goal vs. England? Knock-down header from Donovan. LD was everywhere.
     
  21. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    I'm not disputing that, just acknowledging Dempsey's role, which often we only recall the goals.

    Not to mention Dempsey stepping up during the Confed Cup, the last Gold Cup and the current Copa. He's a big time player as well.
     
  22. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    It's impressive when comparing Dempsey to a guy like Tim Cahill in how long they've lasted in their careers abroad and how effective they've been especially recently for their respective NTs. And Cahill is almost 37.

    Dempsey has more PL goals then Cahill though I'd reckon Cahill has a higher standing due to having played for a much bigger club.
     
  23. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    he always performed far better against CONCACAF then outside of it. though he did seem to push himself at the highest level in recent years especially 2010 WC and the qualifying process
     

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