Doubt that. Maybe better to finnish 3rd, and play more decent EL games against Arsenal, Lazio or Steua Bucuresti, than meet ManU, PSG, Chelsea or Barcelona in 8-final and get knocked out. During the winter transfer window we have to get some more defenders. With Sokratis out of form it looks like a house of cards We have good 2nd keeper, Reinmann, but he's never with the 1st team. What he showed in the summer was impressive. As I said before, he can easily become no 1
Are you kidding? You make more money getting knocked out in round of 16 than winning the EL. A lot more. There's no comparison.
I agree with Slash. We won't win the Champions League but at least we should aim to make it as far as possible in the competition, preferrably the semifinals, and I strongly believe we can do it. We have to if we want to shed that image of a stepping stone club.
I struggle to see how we would get past Madrid, Barcelona, PSG, Juventus, Bayern, City, Atletico or even Chelsea to make the quarters let alone a semi-final. On the field, I really wish LP, Sahin, Kagawa and Castro never appear for the club unless we have a lot of injuries. In the case of Kagawa and Sahin it's worst, because they have already left and failed elsewhere. We need to move on from these players.
To be fair our first 11 when on swing is a world beater: PEA Reus - Gotze - Pulisic Mo - Weigl Raph - Marc - Sokratis - Toljan Burki
That 11 needs to get out and even then I am not confident of the defence or the manager playing a 4-2-3-1. Pulisic is also way overhyped at the moment. I repeat he is a great talent, but he is not Dembele. Yarmolenko would be in the first 11 ahead of him.
Well, you're right, almost. Round 16 is €6m each, while winning EL is 6,5m. Getting to semifinals in EL means 1,5m, which is not much, but plus bonus for previous rounds plus two more sold out home matches. Together with value of more exposure in Europe and the world, I think EL might be just as good, giving that we'll get at least to the semifinals
I think that beyond cash, it comes down to keeping the young talent we have. Staying in Champion's League is bargaining power with the young players. I think if you view it as "money the bigger teams have to pay extra since BVB is also in Champion's League" plus "money BVB doesn't have to pay since kids want to play in Champion's League" the millions there dwarf the CL and EL payments. I think that was true even before the massive fee inflation of the last couple years and now it is even more true. Do we know roughly how much BVB makes from all sources (other than UEFA payments) for CL games, home and away?
You don't know what you're talking about. Base fee for even making it to the group stages is 12,7M. Then you get 1,5M for a win and ,5M for a draw. If you win just two matches you're already ahead of what United took home last year for winning the trophy. Of course that's part of the money you take home. The TV pool is the other part and is usually bigger for the main footballing nations and this diverges the CL earnings from the EL ones even more.
Technically the UEFA payment consists of both, the "prize money" which they themselves get from their sponsors and the "market pool" which they again themselves get from the TV broadcasters. This latter component is based on how we performed in the league the previous year and how many other domestic competitors there are in the CL and how they perform. The more there are, the more is shared and the less we get. This is why Juventus, despite not winning, have made more than the winners from the CL the last few seasons because Napoli don't progress very far and there isn't a third Italian team to even contend. Meanwhile Atletico, Real and Barca have to share amongst themselves and with a Sevilla or Valencia. And there's gate receipts and we usually make more from a CL match day than a BL match. Being in a group of death is usually more profitable because then you have two, maybe three, top clubs visiting instead of just one. So you can charge a premium for the ticket. On the whole it is peanuts in the bigger scheme of things. And finally, you have commercial partner bonuses. I'm sure with our top partners like Evonik, Puma or even Signal Iduna we have a trophy clause. Win the trophy and we get something like 5 or 10M in pure bonus. United got a cool 22M from Adidas for lifting the EL last season.
We aren't a weak physical team but we play like one. Miki used to fall very easily but now I see Sokratis doing it as well. He cost us a goal against and a goal for. We've been screwed so much by refs in the past that our players just fall over. If he'd dive less, Sokratis wouldn't be regularly at fault. What's even more frustrating is that Sahin has become so slow he can't even cover the space in front of the defence. There's a reason why TT benched him. He doesn't have the legs and is always slow to arrive. Smart coaches know that Sahin, Castro and Kagawa don't need to be man marked. They'll lose the ball eventually on their own.
I know what I'm talkink about, but you obviously don't I'm not taltking generally about CL vs EL, but this season! We are already in the group play! What I wrote was difference between ending 2nd and get knocked out in in round 16 (8-final) and ending 3rd and get far in EL. Financially it's maybe in favor of continuing in EL, and as you say yourself, there might be some bonuses too.
No, you're wrong. I've done the math based on actual data, seen the results play out and in no way does it make sense to play in the EL. If you don't believe me, go do the research yourself. Here's a clue. Look at the results from 2013-2016 for other clubs. You're talking out of your ass. And as far as long-term brand building and attracting players go, it is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.
I still think we talk about two different things. And by the way, I don't like your language. Even if you are the most frequent contributor here, it is a democratic forum, and we can exchange our thought about football and the club without doubting of the other's inteligence and calling them names
Europa League is a huge step down from the CL. Europa League is not what this team should be aiming for, and from a fiinancial perspective, Europa has major implications long-term for branding and reputation amongst both players and fans. We should not look at this narrowly. There's a reasoning why CL places are contended for intensely and why Europa often has problems with teams playing their reserves while they compete in the league for the CL spors.
How are we talking about two different things? You think playing in the EL is better than playing in the CL. Going into specifics, you think going deep in the EL is better than going out in the R16 in the CL. I'm telling you that is false logic. Short and long-term. Whether it is commerce, finance, personnel, marketing, brand building. Under no circumstance is it better. I attacked the way you are thinking this through.
Pulisic has that winner mentality that lots of talented players lack. I'd much rather have him on my team than dembele. He's the kind of player who becomes a central pillar of your side for years to come.
I see what you are saying. But I don't think the team needs more lower-quality games or a few million in gate fees. What the team needs is top games where success maintains or increases prestige. Prestige is worth so much in the world wide competition for young players. And the Europa League games are basically Bundesliga quality (the bulk as mid-table league games with a sprinkling of better and worse). If the team wants to beat Bundesliga teams they need to focus on doing it in the Bundesliga to earn the ticket to next year's CL. Particularly with the injury situation (not critical, but one or two key injuries away from critical) I can't get excited about Englische Wochen full of FC Zlin and Skenderbeu Korce.
Exactly, football is so automatic and having a flair or good dribbler in your squad doesn't mean much. It helps you on the wing a little bit, but it is more important you don't loose the ball in the middle. And by muscling out you can get yourself in upper position relative to your opponent on the pitch. We don't play romantic football anymore.
We didn't lose against Tottenham due to a lack of strength. Sokratis should be more than strong enough to hold off Kane, but he was playing for a foul. Sahin admitted he could have cleared the ball, but he wanted the foul too. The high line killed us, which was a tactical mistake. Yes Dortmund are a weak team physically, but with Yarmolenko and Philipp in the line up it improves slightly. Dahoud whilst not strong is more mobile and tenacious than Castro by far.