1 goal away from home to Spanish teams... can we not score one ********ING goal???? This is turning into a thing with this team now isn't it?
The evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of playing Müller up top, behind the striker. Both Jupp and Pep got the very best out of Müller when played as a second striker. Presenting only 2 options of "out wide or on the bench" is an over simplification. Why do we need to have 3 midfielders, especially when Thiago and Xabi have redundant skill sets? Bayern won the treble with a 2 man midfield including Javi Martínez. Here's one example of what could be used. ----------Lewandowski Ribéry------Müller------Robben -------Martínez----Vidal Alaba-Hummels-Boateng-Lahm ---------------Neuer There are a plethora of CM combinations that could be used for a 2 man midfield with the squad Bayern has.
I am not sure its that simple, because in that double 6 you had peak Schweinsteiger who operated both as a midfield general and a key defensive player. Then Mueller as faux 10. But critically peak Robben (all timer), Ribery and also peak Lahm. So you had loads of pace and power on the wings, as well as an ability to control games in midfield. Can the doppel sechs work with the players you now have?
Maybe if Coman/Costa and Alaba on the left go balls to the wall. Vidal on the right and Martinez and Boateng can cover more on the right. Slight tweaks could make it work.
Vidal now is pretty comparable to peak Schweinsteiger. The defense is very good, the attack has been sputtering. That's what moving Müller next to Lewandowski could help with. It takes defenders off of Lewandowski, and creates another goal threat up top in Müller. It also adds another creative presence on the right wing by adding another true winger. The qualifiers for this need not be "peak, world class, Arjen Robben." Bayern chose not to sign another creative player before the season even though some of us were hoping for it, so now they have to make the attack work against top defenses with what they've got. And that's Arjen Robben, Franck Ribéry, Kingsley Coman, and Douglas Costa. Play the wingers as wingers, the strikers as strikers, and the midfielders as midfielders. With Vidal, Martínez, Thiago, Kimmich, Sanches all being peak age, there's no reason a 2 man midfield combination couldn't be found from all the talent the squad has at the position.
I've advocated for this for some time..., why not go back to jupp style/formation that made us successful? And we actually upgraded in every position and depth then the 2013 team. Instead of Dante we have hummels, we have benatia and raf as backups FFS. We have actual talented wingers to rotate with robbery. We have ridiculously talented mids to rotate. Why not use that formation as our base and just rotate in and out players accordingly? One game Martinez sits or Vidal or Thiago or kimmich or robbery etc PS: to add to the frustration... Our GD away to the Spanish teams from real up to now.. -6 GD away from home in 4 games -1 GD at home so far...... Yah let's step the ******** up
It's not a formation thing. You can't just put 4-2-3-1 on the pitch and expect anything else. The metagame has changed. Teams are occupying different zones than 3 years ago, their pressing styles have evolved. With 2 midfielders, our ball circulation would suffer from what we expect, although looking at the turnovers we have conceded in central midfield areas, the extra CM hasn't been made the best use of. Having said that if we do play 2 CMs, Sanches will never see gametime (of course, we shouldn't be bound by a single formation). In the bigger games, the choice of 2 would have to be based on their compatibility. Martinez is a great passer but is he press resistant enough to play the deepest midfield role? Thiago might give the ball away but it's usually out of careless passing rather than the efforts of the counter pressing. He is extremely press resistant, so I can see why Carlo plays him deep. Vidal as the 2nd mid makes the most sense since he's the best 2 way player in the world. What we now need if we're going back to orthodox wingers is the transition to wide areas in advantageous positions. Coman and Costa looked like world beaters because the system was engineered to exploit their abilities. I think Boateng and Hummels should be chiefly responsible for this transition, especially as our CBs do get pressed deep into our half often. Muller and Lewy up front will take care of itself imo.
Agree. If you want to revert to a largely countering approach then you need inform and fit Robben right plus Costa/Coman on the left - otherwise the attack is just too slow.
Valid points. I think the extra winger plus having Müller alongside Lewandowski to ensure that we don't have a striker on an island against 2 CBs would go a long way to create more attacking dynamics. Also, Pep occasionally deployed only 1 CM so I don't subscribe to the theory of 3 CMs being a necessity. Bayern have the quality to play to their strengths and force other teams to respond instead of the other way around. I don't see a 4-2-3-1 as a "cure all", but I don't think there are necessarily big problems either. The problems seem to be that individual Bayern players are too easily isolated on the pitch, and need to find an approach where they are able to move from defense to attack together and directly.
I don't think the 4-2-3-1 was a counterattack approach when Bayern used it in 2012/2013. That Bayern team was very direct, but they were also aggressive and had plenty of possession. The formation can be used as a counter formation, but I would hope it would be implemented in the more direct approach we saw in 2012/2013.
The only match that I remember us using the formation as a counter attack set-up was against Barcelona. The rest of the season we mostly looked to out-possess and counter press when we lost the ball.