Christian Pulisic Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by ussoccer97531, Oct 21, 2015.

  1. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member

    Chelsea
    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was not a fan of the move to Chelsea at all for CP. Once Odoi and Loftus Cheek return there will be two less spots in the midfield. He would likely not compete for the latter's position... so it probably doesn't matter all that much... but Odoi will be direct competition for him and Mount seems to have already locked up his slot... even though I don't think he played well against S. United. Odoi and Mount are both quite a bit bigger than CP which helps a lot in the EPL and they are both young English players and I think that matters. I am not at all surprised that the narrative on CP has 180-ied in the last week. IMO, he has done pretty well for a 20 year-old getting his 1st taste of the EPL. But the fans for these top clubs are incredibly fickle and if you are not assisting and scoring on a consistent basis then they are going to turn on you... especially when you are not taking 3-points from a home match against Sheffield. One week ago the stories were positive.... fast-forward a week and the fans and media are saying he is a disappointment... even though he was directly responsible for one of the two goals in the last match. I wanted CP to go to a team like the Wolves, West Ham or Everton... a team that is pushing for Europe play even though they are not one of the EPL giants. I think they would have appreciated him more and it would have been a ton easier to maintain a spot in the starting lineup. Most likely scenario IMO, is that CP is on the bench once Odoi returns to full fitness and CP is back to subbing in and perhaps playing on Tues/Wed. I really hope I am wrong.... but if he doesn't start scoring goals and/or racking up assists then it is inevitable.
     
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  2. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sure you read my post to the end.
     
  3. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    ya, I thought that for his career, he would be best off staying at Dortmund. They are s'posedly the best team in the BL right now. Puli would have gotten steady minutes, even if he didn't start. And, would have been appreciated by the manager and fans.

    People have said "but, Sancho!" Even with Sancho Puli would be in the rotation. And, it's Dortmund, Sancho isn't going to be there forever.

    But, Puli made the right decision for himself. He has, and will have, a ton more money in the bank because of this move.
     
  4. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    He's just getting into the league so he certainty has time. But, it is a shame he hasn't been able to be quick out of the gate. With so much of the competition unavailable early on, this could have been a great time to solidify a spot in the starting 11. Now, he looks like one decent option of several decent options once the international break is over and other players become available. And, it's not like anyone is pointing to the status quo thus far as being above reproach. I expect him to keep getting plenty of minutes, but I also expect the guys returning will get minutes as well. A coach has to try something to get things back on track.
     
  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    He hasn't been "quick out of the gate," but then again he's been fine.
    He's not the reason they've dropped points.

    The bigger problem for Chelsea is at the back. Zouma wasn't Chelsea quality before his significant injury, and he certainly isn't now.

    That's where the transfer ban is crushing them. Its at the back....................
     
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  6. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT

    This is where a quality coach makes a difference. He has to get creative/innovative and make the best of what's available to him. Drop Zouma, try a 3 men backline, drop in a defensive/central mid to patch up that backline.

    He doesn't have to keep playing Zouma, when everyone know that guy is only good for leaking goals.
     
  7. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a false choice.

    When Odoi gets back, CP may become part of a rotational attacking situation with Mount, Willian, Pedro, Odoi... Frank could balance youth with experience, or go full youth sometimes with an attacking midfield of CP, Mount, Odoi, or he could use CP more sparingly in general, or rotate based specifically on form. This depends on the formation and opponent I'm sure. But either way, when RLC is back, and Kante, Kovacic, Jorginho, Barkley are all healthy, I don't think there's a path for him as an "8"... to say that, we are really stretching the meaning of that term.

    The furthest forward in a midfield 3, if that's Pulisic I don't think that's an 8. At Liverpool it might be. I don't think so at Chelsea. Look at the heat maps, even when Mount is ostensibly used as an "8", he's really playing attacking midfield. It's more of a 4-2-2-2 or maybe a 4-2-3-1, than a 4-3-3 with 2 proper 8s. That's what Frank is going to lean toward in general. When it's a 4-3-3, it's going to be really obvious, like it was against Liverpool in the Super Cup, Kante, Jorginho, Kovacic... now there's a midfield with two "8s".

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I wouldn't use him there. Certainly not for Chelsea, considering their options. If some midfield injury crisis hit them, sure, it could happen. Liverpool have played Lallana as a deep lying midfielder this season, nothing is impossible. But I don't think either of these things are plan A, for obvious reasons.
     
  8. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #4207 Clint Eastwood, Sep 5, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
    Pulisic does have pressure on his shoulders. His transfer fee was such that it was the 38th highest in the the history of the sport! Showing up and fitting is OK at the start here. But he's going to need to be really impactful in the near future.......................
     
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  9. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I thought it was pretty obvious from what I quoted and my post that I did.
     
  10. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're mistaken.
     
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  11. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    It's clearly not an 8. And, I don't think Puli works his way into that spot. I don't think he ends up as a regular in the attacking wing rotation. I don't think he ends up a regular in the rotation for the furthest forward in a midfield three.

    I think his best shot is as one of the other two midfielders - whatever you want to call those positions.
     
  12. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well that's even worse than playing him as the most advanced of the midfield 3.
    So... what does your ideal Chelsea front 6 look like?
    Assume Kante & Kovacic are 100% fit, and RLC & CHO aren't (because, obviously).
     
  13. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    He has only been at the club for a handful of games! It's not 'Chelsea fans' (well English ones anyway) being 'fickle' here. What you have to remember is that in England his nationality is of NO CONSEQUENCE whatsoever, he won't get treated any differently to any other player on the club's books! I can tell you now (as an English Chelsea supporter) that although he hasn't been 'pulling up tree's' (yet) he is not of any particular 'concern' regarding the poor form, it is plainly obvious to us that the issues are at the back (and we don't say that just because Zouma is French!) :). It is obvious to us that this is going to be a learning curve for all at this very young Chelsea team but one thing for sure is that there are few gaffers in this world better than Lampard to play under as a youngster (despite all the crap about him previously spoken on here). If you want Pulisic to 'grow' as a player I suggest few elite clubs would give him the same golden opportunity that he is going to get at Stamford Bridge over the next few seasons. The ball is in his court & I believe that he (along with the other young players) is going to do great things at Chelsea in the future.
     
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  14. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member

    Chelsea
    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is certainly good to hear it from you and I apologize if my generalization departed from the truth... but I ping CP's name all the time looking for related articles and the tenor of the words has completely flipped in the span of a week. This coming after a game where he was primarily responsible for the 1st goal and drew a penalty at the edge of the box out of nothing. It is kind of frustrating because as you pointed out the losses have to do with the D far more than the O. They are scoring 2+ goals a game... they should have a better record.

    I heard an interesting analysis on Sirius the other day that posits that CP would be better off playing with Giroud as he plays further back and facilitates to others whereas Tammy plays really far up the pitch. Therefore CP has to take on several guys to make a run when playing with the latter and would get more one-on-ones with the former. It seems to certainly be the case in a limited sample of play thus far.

    Really hoping some of the negative articles and subsequent comments on CP get nipped in the bud. It seems like the pressure is on. I think CP could be very good and I hope he continues to get the minutes to prove it.
     
  15. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    I think the confusing part was when you asked a moderator, who just told people to stop the discussion in the post you quoted, when a moderator would tell people to stop the discussion.
     
  16. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    I don't know. What does your front 6 look like? You know the team better than I do.

    I'm just saying I don't see him getting many minutes at the positions I've labeled 1,2, and 3, and hope he can fit in at the position I've labeled (just to piss everyone off) 8

    -----------------CF
    1---------------2--------------3
    ----------8
    ------------------------6
     
  17. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I didnt think it was that subtle, but apparently it was too subtle for some. Ironic, I guess.

    Oh well, back on topic... So far, this looks like a great opportunity for CP and will hopefully help him take the next step or two in his development. His play so far has been mixed. He has definitely had some good moments, but also gone stretches where he hasnt impacted the game and struggled with the physicality.

    He is currently adapting to the league just like most new players need to do. Luckily, he is getting plenty of minutes as they have injuries. When those players come back they will have to be eased in. He will need to raise his game by then or minutes will decrease. CP will rise to the occasion or improve trying. I doubt he would completely fall out of favor given the investment they have put in him and even if he does, that means he would likely be moving on.
     
  18. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, that's overwhelmingly where he's played on club level, positions 1, 2, 3...
    So, you think the best thing to do to get CP minutes is to bench 2 of Kante, Kovacic, and Jorginho and play CP what can only be called out of position. And moreover, you think this despite there really only being 2 healthy, dynamic wide attackers in the squad.

    This is a bad idea, and will not happen. So agree to disagree.

    I think in reality, if Frank forces the 4-2-3-1 it's likely to see Pulisic, Mount, Odoi as the pencilled in future attacking midfield.

    o_O
     
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  19. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    1,2,and 3, some think he is better on the right and some think he is better on the left, for the US he plays some in the middle. I don't mind the one or three for him as long as the team is on the front part and he has some freedom to drift inside.

    I think Mount is a good player, and he has an edge on CP right now. I don't think that is guaranteed to stay like that. I do know RLC is going to take one of the spots. Those three spots actually need at least five players for a team like Chelsea. William has not shown any form so far, so we will see if he can play himself back into game form. Odoi, has to be good enough to hold a spot. There is no guarantee he can do that.

    I have not seen enough out of Barkley to think he is some kind of stone cold lock.

    I don't think the Pulisic leash is as tight as some assume, he can be a serviceable player to a club like Chelsea and how much they paid no longer has any bearing on whether he is serviceable.
     
  20. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I think you will probably always find negative comments concerning ANY Chelsea player at any time if you looked for them, football supporters can be quite vicious about 'other' clubs - particularly fairly successful ones & there are a LOT of fans revelling in the fact that Chelsea (and Man U, & Real Madrid it seems) are having to re-build and therefore will be off the pace for a while (expect these clubs AND their players to get a LOT of stick over the next few months), this will probably include all the young players including Pulisic - HOWEVER Lampard believes (and I think most Chelsea fans also believe) that there are some fabulous young players (including Pulisic) at Stamford Bridge right now that have the potential (given a little time) to grow into a special team, of course nothing's a given but I think this could be the start of something good for Chelsea and Pulisic - it's going to take a little while before the team 'falls into place' - I think patience with Lampard and patience with the young players is the key. There WILL be a game sometime this season when Pulisic 'slips into gear'
     
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  21. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    On My Squatty Potty
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lamps needs to play Pulisic on the left. Mount central. Pedro when he returns on the right.

    What's not a good situation is Abraham is poor outside of scoring goals. Can't holdup, can't link off him, movement doesn't stretch the back line.
     
  22. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    His hold up play hasn't been bad besides If Abraham continues to score a goal a game then I don't think anybody can complain too much!
     
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  23. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT
    appwrangler repped this.
  24. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member

    Chelsea
    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thought I would bump this thread. Pulisic doesn't sniff the field against Wolves and did not start the CL game either. Mount gets subbed out for Pedro. Even if he does make an appearance in this CL game it looks like CP is currently the 4th winger option behind Mount, Willian and Pedro. When Odoi returns it will be 5th. Did CP make the wrong move? He has to play to get better. IMO, he should have gone to a mid-tier EPL team. Perhaps Chelsea will loan him out after the transfer ban? I think it is going to be a long and rather uneventful season for CP. Who knows? Maybe injuries arise and he gets another legit shot. Too bad. I didn't think he played poorly at all in his 1st 4 games. Maybe not super impactful... but he is really young and getting used to a new system/league.
     
  25. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member

    Chelsea
    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is it. Chelsea losing at home to Valencia in the 81st minutes. 3 subs. No CP in two straight games for Chelsea. Ouch.
     
  26. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    2 straight DNP-CD's. Not great.
     

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