Chelsea vs Man Utd, October 20 (Match #9)

Discussion in 'Chelsea' started by truefan420, Oct 13, 2018.

  1. greengrass81

    greengrass81 Member

    Manchester United
    Aug 2, 2015
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I assure you he will never be Cesc . Jorginho just isn't really a creative player.
     
  2. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Neither is Busquets but he was/is still instrumental in how Barca play. He's how you beat a press (the same press that would cause us to concede in years past). He's always in motion giving the players around him an outlet when pressed. He's not flashy but he's key in how we play. He sets the tempo.
     
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  3. greengrass81

    greengrass81 Member

    Manchester United
    Aug 2, 2015
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Busquets is a defensive midfielder . Jorginho is your play making midfielder. The onus is on him to create not defend. You are not making a like with like comparison .
     
  4. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Their not the exact same player but both are tasked with same role. Be the outlet for teammates and set the tempo.

    I don't think you understand what Jorginho was brought in for. He wasn't brought in to defend or create. He is the maestro. He gets the band all playing on the same wavelink.

    There's a reason why teams try to disrupt us by putting someone on him. Westham did this and Mou did it at times with Mata.
     
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  5. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Yeah, the great run and pass he had for Morata's chance happened in some other game :rolleyes:

    That's all we need, United fans coming here to offer random views of our players. Offensively Jorginho is just fine.
     
  6. greengrass81

    greengrass81 Member

    Manchester United
    Aug 2, 2015
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    He wasn't bought in to defend or create but he is still a maestro. If he can't defend or create what exactly is he conducting . In the olden days the likes of roy keane and paul scholes could set the tempo , defend , attack & create .

    All Jorginho can do is set the tempo or a more accurate description keep posesssion for possessions sake.

    Thats the problem with modern midfielders these day . They can only do one job . You have of guy like dier who can only tackle and win the ball back . You have another like Jorginho who can only job keep possession and then you have another guy like Pogba who can only attack.

    Specialisation they call it and its nonsense and its killing the game .
     
  7. Kerry Dixon's Boots

    Staff Member

    Jun 6, 2006
    77 degrees
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Out of interest greengrass, who would you suggest would be a better fit in this team? Any players on your radar we should keep tabs on?
     
  8. sydneymuganzi

    sydneymuganzi Member

    Jul 19, 2004
    San Diego
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    QUOTE="greengrass81, post: 37205104, member: 286462"]He wasn't bought in to defend or create but he is still a maestro. If he can't defend or create what exactly is he conducting . In the olden days the likes of roy keane and paul scholes could set the tempo , defend , attack & create .

    All Jorginho can do is set the tempo or a more accurate description keep posesssion for possessions sake.

    Thats the problem with modern midfielders these day . They can only do one job . You have of guy like dier who can only tackle and win the ball back . You have another like Jorginho who can only job keep possession and then you have another guy like Pogba who can only attack.

    Specialisation they call it and its nonsense and its killing the game .[/QUOTE]
    We've not played this well in years. We are very entertaining and take initiative in games. Jorginho has only been here for less than 3 months but he's playing so well and we are happy with him; for he is part of the reason we're playing well. I don't understand what your problem is with our player. We are not trying to send him your way. We are happy with him; end of story. If you don't rate him as a player, then good for you; he's not playing for your team.
     
  9. Blueallthru

    Blueallthru Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    May 15, 2012
    The Interwebz
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I guess in this system of possession for possessions sake his job is ball retention. Just keep the ball. But it's up to the manager of the other side to break up possession. I'll admit our style this season is sometimes bland, sideways passing can be very boring. With that said, it's different than what we've had under 5 consecutive managers. I'll enjoy the difference. On top of that, Jorginho is as much of an on field manager as anything else. He's often telling our players where to be. As this system is new that's just as important as anything else.
     
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  10. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One thing that's overlooked in the possession for possession sake debate is that it's not that simple. The point of maintaining possession like that is multifaceted but in its simplist terms is designed to wear down your opponent. Not just physically from chasing the ball but mentally. Another is also a form of defense by holding the ball that much you're limiting their chances and forcing the other team to counter. Thus limiting their chances and requiring them to be clinical with their chances. I feel like that term is thrown around to shoot down a teams approach without considering why. Same can be said of parking the bus. It's not just giving up. But all in all I too enjoy this brand far more than what we've grown use to in the past.
     
  11. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Yeah, everyone remembers all that defending Paul Scholes used to do. Lol
     
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  12. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    His tackling was pretty dreadful. He used to keep giving FK's away.
     
  13. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    He couldn't tackle his way out of a ********ing paper bag. But I'm shocked - shocked - that a United fan shows up on here telling us about how more players should be like his childhood favorite United players. :rolleyes:
     
  14. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Also, I love how his club is now stated as Chelsea, but his only posting thus far has been on the United forum and he left the United logo in his profile.

    No one can tell you're a United fan mate. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
     
  15. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Maybe he's like that beijingref4lyf dude, (Irish branch), :D

    https://twitter.com/beijingcasuals?lang=en

    I used to love some of his stuff, like these...





    Obviously it's all incredibly racist but, you have to say, it's actually pretty funny.
     
  16. Wrath

    Wrath Member+

    May 4, 2007
    New York
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    On a separate note, I found the Chelsea fans' lack of respect for Jose really appalling. He is still our most successful manager. He is not the classiest himself but give him some respect.
     
  17. Kazuma

    Kazuma Member+

    Chelsea
    Jul 30, 2007
    Detroit
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
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  18. Brock Hannsen

    Brock Hannsen Member+

    Feb 3, 2014
    Hartford, CT
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Some hot takes.

    1. I'm not sure what fans were saying to Jose after the "incident" (which Jose caused himself); if they were degrading him, then yes, that was classless. If he initiated the whole thing with the three fingers, then it is his fault. Again, though, the whole incident was his fault for chasing after someone. Act like you've been there before. That's all you need to do.

    My Dad, bless his heart, thought that Jose's three finger salute meant that he'd be back to manage Chelsea a third time. LOL. At this rate, he's on a collision course with being the most overpaid USMNT manager of all time.

    2. No way I thought we'd be in third place at this stage with a new manager, radically new tactics, and all that that entails.

    3. That said, it was 2 points lost. Again we failed to put them to the sword. At home.

    4. Morata is rapidly approaching a lost cause for us. No one is passing to him. He falls over in a stiff breeze and has no confidence. It's clear the team prefers Giroud right now. And Giroud should start from here on out.

    5. I don't think we buy a striker in January unless we are within touching distance of a title. If we're secure in the top 4, we won't do anything until the summer. Who would we buy? Is Anelka available?

    6. Kante is a fantastic player, but I'm not sure he's very effective in this setup. Without a striker, we need goals to come from elsewhere. Jorginho/Fabregas ain't scoring em. Kante aint scoring em. Pedro has diminished. Willian and Hazard are our two options? And Barkley? Bleak.
     
  19. Wrath

    Wrath Member+

    May 4, 2007
    New York
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I would be open to an Ibra loan. Guy can still score goals and will be short term till we can plan better in the summer.
     
  20. Brock Hannsen

    Brock Hannsen Member+

    Feb 3, 2014
    Hartford, CT
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Zlatan? Yikes. I don't know if we're doing that. Nothing surprises me, though. Remember - at one point we loaned in Pato and Falcao.

    What striker who is worth anything will want to come in if Morata and Giroud are still here with Michy also available for next year.

    Morata came here to get minutes he wasn't getting at Madrid to earn a spot on the national team. Fail.
     
  21. Wrath

    Wrath Member+

    May 4, 2007
    New York
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Yeah, not ideal but I am done with Morata. Bringing back Michy would be an option as well.
     
  22. Ninjatend0

    Ninjatend0 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 10, 2007
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    important to note that for all the sideways passing jorginho does, he looks vertical quite often and many time is playing passes between the lines. one of the main points of all that passing is knowing when to move vertical and when to move side to side. the verticality that sarri teams are known for will come more with time and as other players understand better when to get in those positions. jorginho is radically more vertical over his history at napoli for instance, he's also adapting to a new league and teams that are more willing to sit and disrupt and block off those spaces. it all depends on what is in front of a player like that on any given day. he's just as willing to put a ball over the top when he sees a player making a run, but his value is knowing when not to do that for the teams sake.

    also, for all the stick he got for not covering the cut back space that was exposed during the arsenal game, he's been MUCH more effective at it more recently. also, if you think about how early teams started marking him it shows you two things. one, how important other teams think he is to the team, and two, how well he's been able to adapt and help the rest of the team when that's happening by moving quicker or taking his mark out of the way. for all the marking he's seen, it's hampered to overall team rather little for a group of players still learning this system. that's pretty remarkable.
     
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  23. Brock Hannsen

    Brock Hannsen Member+

    Feb 3, 2014
    Hartford, CT
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I mean, Jorginho is a really good player.
     
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  24. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    In my opinion Barkley has the potential to be a VERY good player, it all depends on two things 1) how he is managed and 2) his desire, a LOT of young English talent are more concerned about the sports car, the women and the drink than they are about dedication to the game, why do English players shine at youth level then lose it a bit as they mature? It has a lot to do with English culture, if Barkley can be steered in the 'right' direction from here on in he may finally get to realise the potential he showed as a teen.
     
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  25. Blueallthru

    Blueallthru Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    May 15, 2012
    The Interwebz
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Very good points, I'd like to add though that he is saying all the right things right now too. Every interview is about his want and hard work. He seems to have figured it out.

    Also, worth adding. The English need to follow Sancho's lead and move to other countries. Money may not be as good but they learn how to play and get to play. Too many young English players get too comfortable being English and lose the will.
     

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