Changing Landscapes - Chicagoland

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by VolklP19, Dec 28, 2016.

  1. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    What is your vested interest in a new unaffiliated, top-tier girls option?

    What specifically do you mean by "unaffiliated"?

    Sorry - I am confused by most of your post.
     
  2. Brace Yourself

    Brace Yourself New Member

    Chelsea
    Turkey
    Jan 19, 2019
    I should have used "independent." - not being a B team, a stand-alone A team for girls in the north/nw suburbs.

    But per Upper Left's post that does seem to be in the cards, which contrasts with a number of posts suggesting it was.

    I think too many posters post unsubstantiated garbage.
     
  3. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Gotcha... I think the BS works itself out. Frankly I do not doubt much of UL post. There are likely more defections from GDA to ECNL. Everything else is sort of already understood - less the migration north which even if it did happen, it's only positioned for ECNL B teams - which does not amount to much.
     
  4. OrangeCard

    OrangeCard Member

    Brazil
    Mar 14, 2018
    Gee. An Internet forum full of rumors and innuendos, someone call Ripley.

    Here a suggestion. Figure that’s the case and chill or don’t bother reading them.

    personally I like rumors and innuendos.
     
  5. SpiceBoy

    SpiceBoy Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Aug 2, 2017
    I would take comments of "chatter from college coaches.." with a grain of salt. The few college coaches I have spoken to are overwhelmingly neutral (intentionally). Coaches are not going to be saying strongly negative things in front of parents of players. Some parents of both ECNL players and GDA players will spread whatever garbage they hear bashing the other side to reinforce "their" decision. I speculate your friend heard other parents (and not coaches) saying that college coaches are bashing GDA and being "overwhelmingly negative" I am sure there are coaches that favor ECNL over GDA. I am also sure that the "overwhelming" majority of these coaches would speak neutrally about the leagues whether they think it or not.
     
  6. upper left

    upper left Member

    Crystal Palace
    Uruguay
    Jan 27, 2018
    You are certainly correct, and I should have been clearer.

    The messages was not that the overwhelming majority of coaches were negative. Just that the few that he chatted to were very negative about GDA. But that may have been related to his own confirmation bias.
     
  7. upper left

    upper left Member

    Crystal Palace
    Uruguay
    Jan 27, 2018
    FCU GDA U15/17 head coach resigns.
     
  8. t***9

    t***9 New Member

    Northwind
    United States
    Feb 2, 2018
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's Mostafa Edders? He's not presently in the FCU Coaches lineup page.
     
  9. Concerned

    Concerned New Member

    Fire
    France
    Jun 30, 2018
    Another one, they will have no coaches left at this rate.

    Isn’t there certain requirements to coach in the GDA also, so they can’t just replace him with anyone.
     
  10. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    This is why I said between FCU and Sockers - at least on the girls side, is up to how FCU manages their program.

    As expected they can't. Sockers continuity as far as staff and programming is second to none in terms of consistency. Does that mean anything though? Likely not. I don't see the GDA coming out on top of this so called turf war. See the Slammers link and the other articles on that matter... National Team??? What does that boil down to at either clubs in terms of odds - maybe a 0.05% chance? Seriously buy a lotto ticket already. ECNL is still dominating in terms of college exposure and that's not likely to change.

    Again let's just play the odds - for either organization... what's the money put in vs the most realistic outcome?
    And this is by no means limited to soccer.
     
  11. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Hypothetically speaking...

    Lets say Eclipse plants a flag near the Northbrook area. What is it possible for them to do? Do they move their B teams north? Is there a chance Eclipse could nab a secondary location near Northbrook and have another set of A and B teams on the northshore?

    What exactly are the possibilities?

    Would it even make sense?
     
  12. Sherpa

    Sherpa New Member

    Dec 18, 2018
    Or, it could work like this: There's an ECNL A team and B team. There are three practices per week. For one practice all players, regardless of which team they are on, practice at the location closest to them, either Oak Brook or at the North location. This practice can be more focused on technical training and/or SAQ.

    The second and third practices are with the players' specific teams, A or B, one day a week in Oak Brook, and the other day at the North location. This way 2 out of the 3 practices are at the player's preferred closer location, and the parents only have to make the long trek one day each week.

    Also keep in mind that there may be a handful of players rostered to the B team that will play some games with the A team, which will likely have a smaller roster intentionally to allow for increased flexibility.
     
  13. upper left

    upper left Member

    Crystal Palace
    Uruguay
    Jan 27, 2018
    There are a few flaws in your business plan, not the least of which is ECNL A and B team rosters are not fungible. They play in the same division.
     
  14. Brace Yourself

    Brace Yourself New Member

    Chelsea
    Turkey
    Jan 19, 2019
    From what i have read here, the issue with Eclipse was being on the "B team" not so much the travel. B team kids bolted for FCU or Sockers DA to be on an "A team." So, if both ECNL teams are housed at Eclipse and they want to field the best team, I think you will have the same issues regardless where the second team is based. Maybe A-L in OB, and M-Z in NB, lol.
     
  15. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    I don't think the issue is as much on about the A teams more then the B teams. The move North would be to capture the high school girls who do not want to commit to year round soccer - so A teams in Northbrook - or that area are not really relevant to expansion. I am sure of that lot, Eclipse would look to move 1 or 2 to Oak Brook for an A team, But likely ver few.

    With the right alliance this could add resources for Eclipse (not just in terms of players), but also add an option for the allied club (FC1, Spartans or whatever) to also move up to ECNL B level play - along with the FRC girls.

    Again I ask though - what's the value of ECNL B teams over ECNL A teams or decent DA teams? Zero chance these players are going to a National Team and are college recruiters really looking at B teams? IMO it's just a badge and bragging rights for parents who don't know that all the MRL Prem 1 and 2 teams would stuff the hell out of them. Why not dump ECNL and move the teams to the MRL then? Oh I forgot - there is a car decal as well.
     
  16. upper left

    upper left Member

    Crystal Palace
    Uruguay
    Jan 27, 2018
    There is no value being on an ECNL B team relative to being on an A team. The value of ECNL B team over GDA is the ability to play hs (some value this highly). The value of ECNL B vs MRL is the ECNL showcases bring in a bigger group of college scouts. I'm not suggesting that means talented MRL players don't have opportunities to land at great college programs, just pointing out it take a bit more effort to get the same number of eyeballs on you.

    Eclipse, and to a similar extent Michigan Hawks, failed in their efforts to field two competitive teams per age groups this year. It will be interesting to see how the two east coast clubs with two teams fare this spring. (They played hs in the fall) At least one of them is fielding "east" and "west" teams. I have no idea what the thought behind PDA blue and white teams.

    If Eclipse tries to put 20-30 miles between their two teams they have a much better chance of having two competitive sets of teams. I'd suggest they would get much interest from the players currently on those very good MRL teams you mentioned for the reason I stated in above.

    It would be likely that Eclipse would try and steer GNT caliber talent to one team (Oak Brook), ans target to have an A+ team to the south and an A team to the north.

    The demand will be driven by the ability to get the best college exposure, and the ability to play high school. Location and staff are actually secondary.
     
  17. Gilligan Rocks

    Gilligan Rocks New Member

    SASA
    Canada
    Aug 6, 2018
    Wont work. Eclipse is all about fielding the top team and winning US champs. There is no way that, in any age group, the top kids are not playing together.

    And what is your criteria for "GNT caliber" player at U13 for such designation? Top 2? Not sure how Player 3's dad will take that? Part of the Eclipse pitch is that by playing with Eclipse you get eyeballs from US Soccer. So given your formula, it would be more like the top 7 or so go to OB at GNT.

    But what if girl 9 lives in Winnetka and conditions her leaving of FCU on being on the A team. Done. Now girl 8 (who lives in Evanston) feels slighted and wants OB, ect..Done... resulting in a similar team allocation as. Back to square 1.

    If there is an ECNL champ to win, Eclipse is helicoptering kids in from Idaho to compete, so, I agree with BYS above, can't see this new, egalitarian Eclipse happening if there a Champs to win.
     
    OrangeCard repped this.
  18. upper left

    upper left Member

    Crystal Palace
    Uruguay
    Jan 27, 2018
    My thoughts are far from egalitarian, they are just trying to account for how no one in this pay-for-play industry (club, coach, player, nor parent) embraces being part of a "B-team", nor should they.

    Remember, what I have spelled out here (going back many months), and what Sherpa and his crew are now hoping to accomplish, is a framework that has a better chance of success than the failure Eclipse (and Hawks, and Concord Fire in Atlanta) experienced this year with their second teams. The dynamics that caused this are related to the human nature of everyone involved, and not much was done to anticipate or mitigate how it played out.

    If they put distance between the two teams they may not end up with A+ and A teams. Maybe they end up with an A+ and a middle of the pack second team, similar to what the Slammers (sister) clubs out in LA have. That is still much better than what they did this year, which was a dis-service to many kids and the club itself.

    Gilligan, 'little-buddy', if you want to hear egalitarian thoughts,I would be happy to deliver my travel sports / social justice sermon to you in the future when you are ready to hear it. ;) I'll spare everyone that here. Maybe I'll provide a link with a coupon code for you and your fanboi OrangeCard once my upcoming book is published
     
  19. SpiceBoy

    SpiceBoy Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Aug 2, 2017
    As mentioned recruiting visibility for any association with ECNL or DA is much better than MRL. Also I see numerous "B" and some 'C' teams from Jaguars, Hawks, Nationals, Midwest United, FC united in P1. Most are not winning P1 but middle of the pack P1 for B and C teams isn't being "stuffed". Eclipse used to put all their B teams in MRL and had some B teams in National league but I think these days they may only be getting their C teams in the "color i,e red black, white" divisions as they have A and B in ECNL
     
  20. OrangeCard

    OrangeCard Member

    Brazil
    Mar 14, 2018
    Upper Leftist,

    I really believe you are underestimating two things: 1) the will of Eclipse to just win, baby and 2) the efficiencies of the youth soccer capital markets (Unless compelled by geography, the best talent will pool together.)

    And, while I am not as well versed in all things ECNL as you, I would imagine that given the traffic in So Cal, Slammers parents may be more willing to grasp hold of such and A/B construct. Have you ever lived in LA?

    So, yes, while the Sherpatization of Eclipse may have a "positive" effect drawing more kids to B team if convenient, I think we differ on the amount of such benefit. You see it as huge victory for the proletariat, I see it as slightly more than a nothing burger...

    But given it is Jan 31, and there is no official announcement, i think this debate is an exercise in the theoretical.
     
  21. Brace Yourself

    Brace Yourself New Member

    Chelsea
    Turkey
    Jan 19, 2019
    A quick glance a recruiting and club sites would argue that the 2019 MRL girls were more successful getting recruited though hard to tell with FC United kids are MRL vs DA. Campton and TC girls obviously MRL. Curious if anyone has insight?
     
  22. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Hard to say but as I have said if IWSL cleaned up their act and got rid of A/B and Open Club and instead created a clear path to MRL then it would be more easily marketed.
     
  23. OrangeCard

    OrangeCard Member

    Brazil
    Mar 14, 2018
    Smackyourself, As discussed ad nauseam here, MRL seems to be having its last hurrah with older high school kids who stuck at those clubs and have had success being recruited. But at the lower ages, given MRL's third tier status, there seems to have been a movement to DA and ECNL clubs. Not sure if any IWSL fix can address that.
     
  24. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    As long as access to ENCL and DA is limited (both geographically and talent), there will always be an MRL that still has more validity then the A division in IWSL and NPL. There is that and the fact that not all teams in DA or ECNL are any good. I doubt the Sockers 2004 team would come close to beating any MRL team in prem 1 or 2. The 2005 team would lose to the majority of prem 1 teams. Eclipse B teams - please!

    The biggest problem is that all these teams/groups are splintered and you are essentially not channeling the best players to the same competition platform - which will ultimately bring down the level of play.
     

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