Changing Landscapes - Chicagoland

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by VolklP19, Dec 28, 2016.

  1. illinisoccer

    illinisoccer Member

    Aug 15, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    I doubt the Fire South is in a lower bracket. The 06 girls are the best team in Illinois.
     
  2. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    It will all come down to which club can promise more to recruit players - which Sockers and FCU can from Eclipse and Eclipse from both Sockers and FCU since they are in different leagues now at the top.

    The end result will be existing middle and lower end DA and ECNL players being pushed out as these clubs bring in hired guns to claim themselves as winners of the universe... Lots of pissed off parents IMO. More disruption of the girls game on the top then any real development - it's a business game now.

    I remember a u12 and u17 Chicago Magic team on the girls side that would wipe the floor with many ECNL teams and most of the Sockers DA teams. That's when the A division meant something. Now it's all spread out amongst ECNL, DA, NPL and MRL - or whatever its called now. All these clubs are looking at stealing players and not focusing on developing what they have.
     
    runnrkicks76 repped this.
  3. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Yeah I was assuming the same.
     
  4. ShepR

    ShepR New Member

    Manchester United
    France
    May 18, 2018
    Maybe the opening of Mariano’s makes it more palatable. People are extremely excited about it.I heard some kids left the Force to play on the Mac’s turf. It’s going to be ready by September 1st. PM showed the parents the building plans, and there is orange fencing all over there. People are really excited about those turf fields.
     
  5. YNWA1986

    YNWA1986 Member

    Apr 22, 2011
    PM has been telling people they're getting 8...no, 10...wait no, 18 lit turf fields and a 10,000 seat stadium for years now. Maybe he wasn't full of sh*t?

    Where is the money coming from? No investor in their right mind would give that place a cent based on its history. Even when it held full league play in the winter and had multiple large tenants/clubs it didn't pull enough $$ to make it's payments. An "investor" dumped some money in a few years back to clean it up and it doesn't appear to have brought in any more business. Now another investment for outdoor fields? Something isn't right...dirty money?
     
  6. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Marianos - seriously?

    Turf fields? Not sure he's making money yet on the facility - especially since he's updated so much of it. Putting in turf fields is going to do exactly what but add more to the red.

    Again - I just don't see where the kids come from - you said Force but they don't have any serious teams that can compete that I know of - their 05 girls just got smacked by Sockers 10-0. They are losing their top 05 player who has been playing 04 and with the boys to Sockers DA team and their next 2 top players are going signed at Sockers - likely playing PA.

    I understand that PM's top female player is out as well - going to make that long drive to Oak Brook because the pool and college exposure just is not there.

    I think my question remains - where do you pull these top kids from when they are few and far between in the NW burbs to begin with?
     
  7. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Stright from the horses mouth... 300 new parking spaces and a 9000 seat stadium with turf. Plus 2-3 additional outdoor fields with property they were buying.

    Who is going to use all those fields - where do that get ROI from?
     
  8. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Quoting myself - spoke with a coach of a team out there and we agree that the best Illinois teams were no match for Solar Dallas and others. According to him the girls play in Illinois is really down in the Chicagoland area for any groups under ECNL/DA - but I would argue that it's just a complete mess altogether for Illinois.
     
  9. illinisoccer

    illinisoccer Member

    Aug 15, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    WrmBrnr and VolklP19 repped this.
  10. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Okay... Still in my convo however and we're digging deeper into thinking that Illinois in general cannot compete - cannot play at the same levels as other regions - I mean not even close.

    Dallas, SoCal - a few clubs out East and even the Hawks (MI).
     
  11. OrangeCard

    OrangeCard Member

    Brazil
    Mar 14, 2018

    IL soccer dropped over last few years. Ball park, there used to be about 90 DI girls per year, this year, around 60. But I think Eclipse 03s are about as good as any 03 in country and the 01 Eclipse fully loaded is top 10- and would clock Solars 01s.

    Aside from the Lake Forest 01 team (that folded into FCU) and the CFJS '03 (that folded into Eclipse), I am unaware of any other team faring well in meaningful national events over last 3 or so years.

    I also think MI's dominance is somewhat of an outlier due to very strong 01 and 02 classes, but, even normalized it appears to be better than the Chicago talent.

    I also think the strong Dallas and SoCal teams tend to fade from u13/14 to U17/18- case in point being Solar. But there is certainly more emphasis on girls soccer in CA and TX in general, and maybe in Atlanta too.

    So, yes, outside the top 1 or 2 teams in Chicago per age group, there seems to be a material drop off vs other areas in the country.
     
  12. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Right - so why is Eclipse only producing 2 solid teams - Sockers have had no teams since 98/99 team that was any good in the region alone. FCU may be too young?

    What is SoCal and TX clubs doing that enables them to produce better players/teams. Can't just be the weather.
     
  13. CLFutball

    CLFutball New Member

    Feb 7, 2012
    Ok, so I'm not going to wade into the whole he said / she said debate about SBW / FC Alliance, but I call BS on the RT 14 comment. Yes, there is a ton of traffic but even in rush hour you can get to the MAC from the corner of 14 and Main in Cary in 15 minutes. You cannot get to Soccer City, or Olympic Park for that matter, that fast from there. Canlan, yes you can get there in less than 10 minutes but that is a different story.
     
  14. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    #515 VolklP19, Jun 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
    My older daughter playerd there 5 years - we are off 14 in a subdivision in FRG but attend Barrington schools - so about a 2 minute drive down 22 and we're on Rt 14. We've been at SC for 7 years and it's easier for us to get to there then theMac.

    You would think it would not but the traffic heading to SC is all going the other direction.

    So there is my personal experience and I suppose you can ask ML or PM too see if that was an issue to any of the kids out my direction because that's what at least 4 different parents said. Maybe for them it was to far for year round practices compared to SnapOn. I don't think there are many players and families completely committed to SBW / soccer- or atleast the SBW that took everyone. So a few miles more may make the difference. I only know that from my experience - I get what they are saying.
     
  15. OrangeCard

    OrangeCard Member

    Brazil
    Mar 14, 2018


    Nah, I think both Eclipse and FCU are fielding solid teams up and down the age groups, I just think that the Eclipse 01 and 03 teams are elite.


    FCU’s 01s made DA playoffs and 03s just missed making wild card. Eclipse 02 made ECNL play offs, etc.


    I think it is pretty easy to see how things are shaking out (firsthand, from nieces and friends experience), generally (and there will be some exceptions), here is how I see it:


    1) Eclipse A ECNL will be top team at each age- they recruit, have central location, etc. Also, now Eclipse can offer HS experience for players (how ironic).

    2) FCU DA will be second- I think HS lure fades a bit for North Shore kids (some good Freshmen did not play HS for DA- I think this trend continues). FCU is pulling kids in from NW suburbs.

    3) Sockers DA – maybe best program for development but seem to care more about boys. On margin, for solid player that are targeting college, I think parents will opt for this first team than the “stigma” of being on Eclipse B team. 99s were good this year, but 03 and 01s finished second to last.

    4) Eclipse B ECNL team- from what I understand tryouts are in August (ie, pool is selected but A and B determination has not yet)- so I have to think if kids is on bubble for A and has offer at one of the DA teams, the opt for the DA team.

    5) CSA/Campton/TC/Galaxy/FCU B team Dunno? - big drop off here with demise of MRL and NPL


    So, given the above hierarchy and inherent challenges with DA, going forward, only Eclipse will be able to field truly elite teams on a consistent basis.
     
  16. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    #517 VolklP19, Jun 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
    I agree on Eclipse but I think FCU will struggle a bit with operational issues that may and in fact have, hampered their own success. Having played in that area I also think they may continue to have troubles keeping top talent at the high school level. They need to create a serious culture that does not bad mouth high school but clearly sets a path forward to show why DA is more important. That will be difficult because again - DA has no stats vs ECNL for college so they could even lose players to Eclipse because of that.

    Sockers is not development in the sense that they develop players. Most of their top teams are comprised of players who come over at u12 and u13 - their technical skills having been developed at other clubs. Their 2004 girls only included 4 or 5 original Sockers players who had been with the club for 4+ years and that was a big problem - sort of an indictment on the clubs inability to develop players. They made changes but the real issue is that Sockers develops a style of play - essentially dictated by DA and US Soccer. Any development at the player level is no different then anywhere else, they will play the top players in additional games and play them up. I'll have to keep an eye on the current 05 girls. I think they will have the same issue that the 2004 girls had - unless they move up the existing PA team but if that's their play, I think they will struggle to finish ahead of Shattuck - just like 2 of the 3 teams in the GDA today. That brings forth the question asked a few times - be on Sockers DA team with a path to a National team (But you are 8th of 9 team in DA standings). Or play on one of the two Eclipse teams in ECNL?

    From what I understand (parents at the Eclipse, there are a lot of "My kid should be playing up" at the lower levels. Bad soccer all around. One of the parents who I coached with is at Eclipse. He and I are speaking about how bad u11-u13 soccer is when compared to 2012 and back - just garbage and it really is.

    I think that could change based on many variables - how well they perform in ECNL, the ECNL and DA "turf war" and how that pans out as well as the resources that Eclipse sets in place at these levels.

    I don't know much about FCU's younger groups but they have a big pool and traditionally Trevian has some decent teams - more then Eclipse and Sockers IMO.

    Of course the MRL/NPL garbage leagues need sorting but I think CSA/Galaxy and TC will be fine. They need to capitalize on the fact that there is no reason (at this point) for good players to run off to Eclipse or Sockers at a young age - they can be better developed at any one three of these clubs - just a shame that they are basically in the same area.
     
  17. upper left

    upper left Member

    Crystal Palace
    Uruguay
    Jan 27, 2018
    http://www.ussoccerda.com/20180619-NEWS-DA-To-Introduce-New-Competition-Structure-for-2018-19-Season

    OC, It looks like you might not have to speculate or use your proprietary RPI analytics to get your answers next year.

    However, the linked article indicates this is just about allowing the boys to "play more meaningful games" aka... allowing clubs to schedule games vs. non-DA competition. No word on what GDA will allow in this article.
     
  18. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Sort of an admission of not being able to provide enough meaningful play within their own league? But I thought they had all the answers?

    Focused on player development, the schedule...

    Should be: Focused on expanding the style of play which US Soccer mandates

    This is good stuff. Campton DA get stuffed by Sockers DA already - makes me wonder if they want to experience that in their older ages? I mean playing better teams is great but getting your pants beat across the board is generally not a good thing if your trying to sustain and build a soccer club outside the DA.

    I said it before when they expanded DA to additional clubs for only the younger ages - that those clubs were never and will never see expansion beyond that. That by design it's meant to showcase the full DA clubs ability to kick your ass and get parents from Campton in front of coaches from Sockers where they can be recruited.

    This is just another means to move those top players to these big clubs.
     
  19. OrangeCard

    OrangeCard Member

    Brazil
    Mar 14, 2018

    It was approved for girls as well. I think it is more geared to help college exposure. The Non DA/DA events (that I have heard of) are being put together for such. USSF may have listened to college coaches being upset about the no reentry rule for DA games and the difficulty that poses on scouting.
     
  20. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    #521 VolklP19, Jun 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
    You don't think it's also geared towards keeping other GDA/ECNL clubs from joining the "All In" group? I mean right now in Illinois there are only 2 GDA clubs - opening play up certainly will keep costs down in terms of travel for those clubs.

    Problem is who do they play - top NPL or MRL teams???

    No way I see FCU and Sockers taking on Eclipse teams in the ECNL.

    At least not for the next few season until they get their houses in order. FCU is fairly new to this level and Sockers fell apart are in rebuild mode on the girls side.
     
  21. upper left

    upper left Member

    Crystal Palace
    Uruguay
    Jan 27, 2018
    I agree. But I doubt Eclipse sees it in their best interest to schedule those friendlies either. Maybe some of these marbles bounce into each other at a showcase once in a while, but I don't see any way they schedule friendlies with each other. Will GDA clubs take the chance of getting embarrassed by an NPL or MRL club?

    I think players and losers like us are the only ones that want to see these teams play each other. DOC's don't want it, and I would suggest parents, paying the high price of admission, deep down don't want to take the risk of their fancy club being exposed either.

    So basically, DA admits their framework has problems, but nothing is likely to change.
     
  22. OrangeCard

    OrangeCard Member

    Brazil
    Mar 14, 2018
    The ones I know or are DA/ECNL teams from different cities playing a couple of friendlies on weekends as showcase. So, while winning is nice, the objective is exposures.
     
  23. illinisoccer

    illinisoccer Member

    Aug 15, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    It looks like the eclipse boys teams that won the IYSA state cups are skipping Midwest regionals for USYSA to do the ECNL version
     

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