Changing Landscapes - Chicagoland

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by VolklP19, Dec 28, 2016.

  1. OrangeCard

    OrangeCard Member

    Brazil
    Mar 14, 2018

    "Done" as in Eclipse WI is merging with Honor? or is Honor folding?


    Big difference...I think.
     
  2. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Honor/Eclipse is merging with another club - a bit further east.
     
  3. lncolnpk

    lncolnpk Member+

    Mar 5, 2012
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #353 lncolnpk, Apr 18, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  4. OrangeCard

    OrangeCard Member

    Brazil
    Mar 14, 2018
    Hmm, why? not getting second IL ECNL badge. Wasn't Honor good during the Bush administration? There must be a tax advantage to that deal. Seems very licensy to me...
     
  5. aDifferentPerspectiv

    Apr 22, 2011
    Honor hasn't been relevant in years. One coach took a total of 30-something players that were left and created Eclipse North. Anyone who knows this coach knows that they have a short shelf-life, and it ran it's course. Now that coach is moving to the North Shore Soccer Coaches Retirement Home, aka the Island of Highly Paid Misfit Coaches, and who knows how many of those 30-something players will follow.

    FC Wisconsin only holds the Eclipse name on the girls side, and its because their respective directors are tight. Take a look at FCW Eclipse's records over the past 3 years and ask yourself: why the hell are they in ECNL? 3-4 clubs in Chicagoland are better than they are. Ever considered why US Soccer and a number of clubs don't want to work with ECNL? It's because there really are no standards required to be and ECNL club other than your club had to be approved by or had a club director in the "inner circle". Hell, if FCW is considered an "elite" club, then TC/Campton/Galaxy/Inter must be world-class! LOL
     
    lncolnpk and illinisoccer repped this.
  6. PlaySimple

    PlaySimple Member

    Sep 22, 2016
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #356 PlaySimple, Apr 19, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
    From this post and your other post above it seems as if you believe that FC Wisconsin's Eclipse affiliation is something new. I may be mistaken but it has been FC Wisconsin Eclipse for at least 4 years now or, perhaps, longer and they've been an ECNL club for that long or nearly that long. This is not a new arrangement or a coming arrangement.

    I'm with the other posters that have mentioned that a lot of clubs are in the ECNL based more on the "good ol' boy" network or based on who directors are friends with as opposed to the merits of the club. There are plenty of clubs that belong but plenty that don't, either. After the GDA formed the ECNL started adding new clubs at an alarming rate. Now that it looks like the pendulum could possibly be swinging back to the ECNL with clubs defecting from the GDA, I'm wondering it the league is going to become too watered down with too many clubs that probably don't belong. That is already happening with the GDA - too many mediocre clubs in the GDA.

    A part of me is wondering if the Hawks, PDA, and Stars of Mass didn't join the GDA knowing full well that they would be leaving in short order and going back to the ECNL. Along with knowing that they would be leaving, they knew that they would be harming the GDA. Don't get me wrong; I much prefer the ECNL model over the GDA and for the girls it definitely is a better setup and gives them more freedom for HS sports, etc, but I wouldn't be surprised if what we're seeing now with the defections, and with the future defections we may see with the Eclipse, Slammers, etc, have been planned for awhile. In the meantime the only ones not benefiting in this pissing match are the kids.

    I know that this is a discussion about the girls ECNL, but I thought that I would also throw in my opinions of the boys ECNL. That league, from what I can tell, is really sub-par. That was started out of spite for what the USSF did in starting the GDA. Kind of a "I'll take my ball and go home" scenario. I do believe that the USSF should have worked with the ECNL years ago to come up with something for unified player development on the girls side and it was wrong of them not to do so. However, I believe that the ECNL was equally wrong to start the boys ECNL with, in my view, no apparent benefits for the boys.

    It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out on the girls side. I'm almost wondering if cooler heads will prevail in the future and the USSF and ECNL can come to an agreement and form a unified league with unified standards that would also allow some of the freedoms that US Soccer allows with the ECNL. That scenario would be best for the kids but something tells me it will never happen.

    What a MESS!!!
     
  7. PlaySimple

    PlaySimple Member

    Sep 22, 2016
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    In my post above I meant to write this in the last paragraph. I realize that US Club is the governing body of the ECNL.

    I'm almost wondering if cooler heads will prevail in the future and the USSF and ECNL can come to an agreement and form a unified league with unified standards that would also allow some of the freedoms that US Club allows with the ECNL.
     
  8. OrangeCard

    OrangeCard Member

    Brazil
    Mar 14, 2018
    Yes, I think that is scheduled to happen... right after a lasting Israeli-Palestine peace accord and Harvey Weinstein winning NOW's Man of the Year award.....
     
    lncolnpk repped this.
  9. PlaySimple

    PlaySimple Member

    Sep 22, 2016
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    You quoted a truncated version of my original post because I accidentally did not include my whole thought in the correction. If you look at the post above, I also wrote this:

    That scenario would be best for the kids but something tells me it will never happen.
     
  10. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    No I am aware of that - just not sure what I have been told will happen, will do so in the time frame expected or at all. Not throwing the potential NW club in there - who is supposed to link with FCW on the girls side - thereby replacing Eclipse because it's speculation at this point.

    Rest of your post - I'm right there with you!
     
  11. upper left

    upper left Member

    Crystal Palace
    Uruguay
    Jan 27, 2018
    Huh.jpg

    It sounds like you know something the rest of us don't... or not. Regardless, you have lost me on this whole FCW / Eclipse / ECNL association.

    FCW-Eclipse has been participating in ECNL for several years. Is Eclipse is trying to figure out how to get their logo off FCW's website? Are they trying to figure out how to get Sockers back into ECNL, and have Honor and FCW kids feed into that?

    GDA's Midwest division, assuming Eclipse follows Hawks will have one truly legit club left (CUP). Regardless of whether or not Sockers rejoins ECNL, I'm not sure if the timing will ever get better for ECNL to put a club in the northern suburbs and turn FCU's GDA badge into a talent allocation problem and ultimately a financial liability... we will have to just sit back and see what gets dictated. #EclipseEffect
     
  12. OrangeCard

    OrangeCard Member

    Brazil
    Mar 14, 2018
    I think Nationals > CUP. Going into GDA this year, CUP lost a number of good, committed 17s to HS and ECNL, so they have slipped. Nationals 17s are as good as anyone in the country but will likely lose a lot of girls to HS in the next few years like they did with their 19s.

    But your point is well taken, if Eclipse and Hawks leave GDA, and CUP and Nats struggle to keep kids past commitment, ECNL will easily surpass GDA in the midwest.

    Again, this could change if the NCAA further limits coaches' contact with players till junior year.
     
  13. upper left

    upper left Member

    Crystal Palace
    Uruguay
    Jan 27, 2018
    Ah, duh, yes, Nationals are not too shabby!... larger point persists, as you said, The Midwest DA division will look very weak compared to the ECNL Midwest division (with or without FCW-Eclipse's inclusion).
     
  14. aDifferentPerspectiv

    Apr 22, 2011
    Based on the current landscape I'll disagree with this statement.

    Right now, between Midwest United, CDA, Sockers, Nationals, Indy Fire, Eclipse (they haven't formally left yet, and might not even) the level of competition in DA is actually pretty balanced...each has a team or two in playoff contention. Only Shattuck is really under-performing at all ages.

    Look at the ECNL Midwest: SLSG-MO are the only club that consistently field strong sides. FCW, SLSG-IL, EGA, Vardar are average at best. What you'll have in the ECNL Midwest after this all shakes down is 3-4 consistently really good clubs and 3-4 consistent bottom feeders.
     
  15. upper left

    upper left Member

    Crystal Palace
    Uruguay
    Jan 27, 2018
    ADP, You win today. But, let's have that discussion again once Eclipse makes their announcement. They were listed earlier today on the ECNL's website of "All-In" clubs, then their name disappeared.

    http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague...an-hawks-pda-and-more-are-all-in-for-2018-19/
    The link inside that press release includes a link to the list of 79 "All-in" clubs... as of right now, there are only 78 clubs listed. There were 79 earlier today.

    I wish these clubs would do a better job of rolling out this phase of what appears an otherwise brilliant and well-coordinated effort to destroy the GDA.

    My tin hat is starting to hurt my head, so I'm going to stop here.
     
  16. OrangeCard

    OrangeCard Member

    Brazil
    Mar 14, 2018

    What????? Naahhhh. If Eclipse and Hawks jump to ECNL, this is not even close.

    You forgot MTA, whose 16s just beat So Cal Blues and 17s have many high D1 commits.

    Also, Midwest United has a very strong bubble of 00, 01s going through. Once gone, this team is FCU. So, only CUP/CDA and Nationals would be top-tier clubs. Others are Eclipse, Hawks, and SGSL.

    I think the next level would also favor ECNL clubs too:

    MTA, KC Athletics (coming over too) are much better than Sockers, Fire, FCU, etc. all of which have horrible teams.
     
  17. aDifferentPerspectiv

    Apr 22, 2011
    Fair shout.

    But even if Eclipse leaves, and including Hawks, theres only 3 really strong clubs in Midwest ECNL. It almost unbalances the division even more. Girls DA might lose two of its top clubs, but the gap between top and bottom would be much smaller (with Shattuck being the current exception), and would be worth the time/money in travel. Would a Hawks-EGA/FCW/SLSG-IL fixture be any better?

    Girls DA will be fine, even when these clubs leave. US Soccer isn't going to just fold up shop after year one. Many agree that it's too big right now anyway, and the talent in many markets is diluted or not formalized because of too many clubs. The regions will evolve and clubs will come and go...look back in boys DA year 1: Birmingham United, U17 YNT Residency, and Empire United were in the Midwest Division...much has changed.

    ECNL and DA clearly have different philosophies. Which one is right or wrong is completely up to the player/family/club.
     
  18. aDifferentPerspectiv

    Apr 22, 2011

    Any U16 result should be taken with a grain of salt because its a DA gap year. Some clubs have their strongest U16s while others are playing them up at U17 in DA.

    Hard to guarantee that a strong team this year is going to stay strong, or weak stay weak, for next season. You could very well see players leaving these clubs that are jumping back into ECNL, but it could go the other direction too. Does US Soccer start to push YNT players towards DA? No one knows yet. Still a lot of speculation. Still a lot of posturing, threatening. I can say though, just based on conversations, players will be moving around this spring. Just a question of which direction they go.
     
  19. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    I may have lost myself - or found myself in the middle of a story that has yet to show any bite.

    :eek:
     
  20. OrangeCard

    OrangeCard Member

    Brazil
    Mar 14, 2018
    Yes, but in this case So Cal Blue's U16 is their top team. Loaded with GNT kids. Like FC Stars, and FCKC, their B teams play GDA
     
  21. upper left

    upper left Member

    Crystal Palace
    Uruguay
    Jan 27, 2018
    OK, so here's something new to kick around... after OrangeCard bored everyone to sleep with his breakdown of random clubs no one cares about... :sleep:
    It is from an anonymous poster (they all are) on Talking-Soccer, and I swear it isn't me spreading my own rumor.

    "Indiana Fire to leave DA and return to ECNL. Announcement to follow tomorrow."
    http://talking-soccer.com/TS4/showthread.php?t=152463

    Sounds kind of crazy because of their MLS affiliation and ties to USSF, but think about it. DA is a straight jacket.

    Their U17 and U19 teams were decimated by high school defections in the fall, and it doesn't look like all those players returned.

    The Fire are nextdoor to an enormous facility in Westfield that will be much easier to monetized if freed from USSF.

    Can't figure out why the Fire club in Chicago didn't get DA. They must have applied. Did they get shut out again for 2018-19 season?
     
  22. OrangeCard

    OrangeCard Member

    Brazil
    Mar 14, 2018
    Yes, that recap of IN Fire's struggles is a real page-turner...:unsure:.What no roster break down or link to game video? Tsk, tsk.

    To answer your question, I am not sure how tied into Fire that IN club is. I believe the club used to be Carmel United ? then aligned with Fire. I am also not sure what that means, maybe akin to a Chuck E Cheese franchise or maybe the Illuminati..Fire has similar outposts inli KY, LA, etc.

    Maybe going back to ECNL will force the dissolution of the Fire relationship. Midwest United (MI) dissociated itself with Columbus Crew a few years back.
     
  23. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Chicago Fire Jr (Girls) have 42 teams in the IWSL (one of the top 3 largest clubs and by far). Some of those teams are good.

    Why would they not get a DA or ECNL - could play into this...?

    In my head I am thinking Eclipse are saying to ECNL... "We'll pull out of the DA if you ensure us that Sockers and FCU never get in". Would not put that past them.
     
  24. upper left

    upper left Member

    Crystal Palace
    Uruguay
    Jan 27, 2018
     
  25. upper left

    upper left Member

    Crystal Palace
    Uruguay
    Jan 27, 2018
    So somewhere in Oakbrook, I'm sure that conversation is taking place. Everyone nearby that conversation is asking, "why is that guy talking to himself again?"
     

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