Changes Imminent for future CCLs

Discussion in 'CONCACAF Champions League' started by ArsenalMetro, Oct 19, 2016.

  1. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/201...concacaf-victor-montagliani-gold-cup-ccl-fifa

    So, he wants the big teams to play fewer games, but wants it to become a bigger event? That's exactly the wrong move. No one's going to get deeply involved in a tournament that's even shorter than the one we already have. A return to 4-team groups that usually feature MLS v. Liga MX matches makes far more sense to me than what Montagliani seems to be suggesting here.
     
  2. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    It's hard to play a Group Stage with teams playing fewer than 4 games. With 3 games, you would have a group of 4 with each team playing each opponent once, which would require "neutral" sites or teams having unequal amounts of home games. With 2 games, you would have a group of 3 with each team playing each opponent once, which the Caribbean did for Caribbean Cup qualifying. Each team could have one home game and one away game, but I don't like teams having only 2 Group Stage games. If the top teams have to play fewer games, I'd rather make the whole tournament knockout. 8 teams could have byes to the Round of 16. The Round of 24, Round of 16, Quarterfinals, Semifinals, and Final would have two legs each and require ten matchdays. Maybe then the first three rounds could be played in the first year of the CCL, with only the Semifinals and Final in the second year, so the Quarterfinals would be in September and/or October rather than in February and early March before the MLS regular season.
     
  3. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    What you're saying is essentially a reversion to the Champions Cup of 2002 and 2003, just with an extra 8 teams.

    I agree though; I'd much rather see a knockout tournament than a further reduced group stage.
     
  4. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    The first Champions Cup I knew about was in 2005. My proposal of 24 clubs was based on keeping the current amount. It wasn't modeled after another tournament.

    Single round-robin groups of 4 at one site are normally held continuously. CCL clubs could not play 3 consecutive games at a neutral site without missing at least one weekend domestic league game. In addition, if there were two groups in the USA and two groups in Mexico, it would be unfair to clubs from other countries, but would a group with an American or Canadian club, a Mexican club, a Panamanian club, and a Central American (not from Panama) or Caribbean club get enough attendance in Panama? Both for national teams and for clubs, how many neutral sites outside the USA would get decent attendance?
     
  5. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    With Mexico pulling out of the Copa Libertadores in 2017 and future participation unresolved this is CONCACAF's chance to make the CCL more relevant. I propose a 16-team group stage with Liga MX and MLS sides in every group.
     
    dinamo_zagreb repped this.
  6. jared9999

    jared9999 Member+

    Jan 3, 2005
    Pachuca, Hidalgo
    Club:
    Club América
    Country:
    Mexico
    Wasn`t the SCCL gonna make changes in their schedules as well? Similar to Libertadadores Febuary to November
     
  7. It's called FOOTBALL

    It's called FOOTBALL BigSoccer Yellow Card

    May 4, 2009
    Their participation in Lib never impeded C'CAF from making CCL more relevant. They tried, but the fans did not respond, that's why the format changed. And now this ridiculous proposal of favoring certain teams is completely unfair. Keep the format the same, but move to a calendar year schedule so LMX teams can rejoin Lib. There's no chance they will return to a 16 team group stage, that already failed.

    LMX teams should not have pulled out, they send B teams to CCL already, so it'd be no different if they were simultaneously in Lib Cup. Ugh. Might as well have Bobby Bonilla as LMX pres, such a boneheaded move, robbed Xolos, GDL and America.
     
  8. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Country:
    United States
    So why could Mexico just replace the Copa Lib team that had conflicts with other teams?

    Is it because if a Liga MX team made a run in Copa Lib and then qualified to the CCL they would have a conflict with the CCL group stage?

    I guess making the CCL a calendar year schedule would now get some support from Liga MX.
     
  9. dinamo_zagreb

    dinamo_zagreb Member+

    Jun 27, 2010
    San Jose, CA / Zagreb, Croatia
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    Croatia
    Yes, they must go to spring-fall schedule, four-months break is simply lunatic.

    Format, well, can't get any worse than this. "Congrats" to whoever arranged this 8x3 travesty.
     
    ArsenalMetro repped this.
  10. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Country:
    United States
    I did read that Copa MX is also changing to 9 groups, just read it in one of the Spanish sports channels, not sure of what other changes, but I assume that unless they follow the 3 team group thing, they are going to have every Liga MX team and every Ascenso MX team playing in Copa MX.

    9 X 4 = 36 (18 LMX, 18 AMX).
     
  11. dinamo_zagreb

    dinamo_zagreb Member+

    Jun 27, 2010
    San Jose, CA / Zagreb, Croatia
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    Croatia
    Oh, come on, I thought there was format change announced. :laugh:
     
  12. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    Are 7 out of 9 second place clubs going to advance to the Round of 16?
     
  13. jared9999

    jared9999 Member+

    Jan 3, 2005
    Pachuca, Hidalgo
    Club:
    Club América
    Country:
    Mexico
    probably
     
  14. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1616...w-progression-toward-better-governance-crawls
     
  15. AlleXyS

    AlleXyS Member

    Apr 22, 2014
    Club:
    FC Steaua Bucuresti
    Country:
    Romania
    To be like a real continental competition, CONCACAF Champions League need a format between Copa Libertadores and UEFA Champions League :)

    First :

    - See Oceania, how has improved their competition in few years .... from 2 groups of 4 teams, at 3 groups of 4 and now at 4 groups of 4 teams, with 9 leagues in competition (7 leagues give each 2 teams, and 2 will qualify from preliminary round between Samoa, American Samoa, Cook Island and Tonga). I hope, next steep will be to have quarterfinals (both top2 of groups to qualify in knock-out phase) and home-away matches.

    - See Africa, how expanded their groups stage from 2 of 4 teams at 4 of 4 teams ... and probably in some years will expand at 8 groups of 4 teams with zonal (North Africa / South Africa) as Asia have (but not with fixed number of team 16 and 16, because I think this is very very wrong). Other important step for Africa is to give more berths for top countries (this moment, top12 leagues have only 2 teams in Champions League)

    and now ... CONCACAF : why I said between UEFA and CONMEBOL? Because UEFA have too many countries in comparation with CONCACAF (54 vs 40 ... not exactly numbers, this doesn't matter too much ... but only 20 25 concacaf leagues give teams each year in CCL or CFU Champions Cup) and CONMEBOL is too little (only 10 leagues) in comparation with 40 of Concacaf.
    - For Copa Libertadores, maximum of teams from a country is 7 (Brazil), with +2 for them probably (winners of Copa Libertadores and Copa Sudamericana previous season, if the teams are not already qualified from Seria A or Copa do Brasil).
    - For UEFA Champions League, maximum of teams from a country is 5 (Spain), if a team of Primera will win Champions League or Europa League and are not already qualified from Primera in the next UCL edition.

    So, I have my own ranking for last 5 years in CONCACAF, but what is more important .... how will look the berths for each federation in CCL :

    1. Mexico 2543.75
    2. USA 784.20
    3. Costa Rica 441.10
    4. Canada 233.85
    5. Honduras 233.00
    6. Panama 223.05
    7. Guatemala 203.40
    8. El Salvador 153.30
    9. Trinidad & Tobago 91.95
    10. Nicaragua 51.75
    11. Jamaica 39.50
    12. Belize 29.20
    13. Puerto Rico 19.00
    14. Haiti 16.00
    15. THE REST

    Qualifying Method :

    24 dirrect teams in groups stage + 8 from preliminary round/s

    (Pos. total teams / groups - preliminary)
    1. 1 / 1 - 0 TH
    2. 6 / 5 - 1 Mexico
    3. 6 / 5 - 1 USA
    4. 5 / 3 - 2 Costa Rica
    5. 4 / 3 - 1 Canada
    6. 4 / 2 - 2 Honduras
    7. 3 / 2 - 1 Panama
    8. 3 / 1 - 2 Guatemala
    9. 2 / 1 - 1 El Salvador
    10. 2 / 1 - 1 Trinidad Tobago
    11. 2 / 0 - 2 Nicaragua
    12. 2 / 0 - 2 Jamaica
    13. 1 / 0 - 1 Belize
    14. 1 / 0 - 1 Puerto Rico
    15. 1 / 0 - 1 Haiti
    16. 1 / 0 - 1 the rest (for example 10 teams)

    24 direct teams + 19 teams in preliminary rounds from top14 leagues + 10-20 teams from other nations.

    Probably will have 2 preliminary rounds.

    Why is better this format?
    Any league have a correct chance to play in Champions League groups stage. From top5 leagues (the best strongest in CONCACAF : Mexico, USA, Costa Rica, Canada and Honduras) will play a maximum of 25 teams (26/32 of groups stage = 81% of total number of teams). This is the best case, and the matches will be more spectacular. Or, in bad case, if all teams of top5 will be eliminated from preliminary round, and the winner of previous CCL season is outside top5, we will have 18 teams from top5, which is ok, but less probably :) So, the competition will grow up, the rivality will grow up, many matches will appear on TV, TV rights will grow up, fans will come in big number for games against important teams of CONCACAF, and the berths for each season will be given as in UEFA, by coefficients.

    Controversy :
    - How have Costa Riva 5 teams in groups stage? Why not? They have every year Alajuelense, Herediano and Deportivo Saprissa there. Cartagines or Santos de Guapiles definitelly are better than Nicaragua or Belize champions.
    - How Canada have 4 spots if they have not a league? Helped by sportif performance, they can :) Ever losers of semifinals of Voyager Cup can qualify for the competition. (it seems that Montreal Impact, Toronto FC and Vancouver Whitecaps to play season by season in CCL .... this is awesome for the competition ... with cities where the football is loved by fans, and with teams with rivality from MLS)

    and so, probably in each group we will have 3 teams from top5 leagues, which will fight for 2 berths in knock-out phases, and one more team, outsider from El Salvador, Trinidad, Jamaica, Puerto Rico ... etc :)

    this is the best way
     
  16. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    The CCL doesn't make much money. CONCACAF would have to subsidize travel costs if the CCL added more clubs. I wouldn't want a format that could have five or six of the quarterfinalists from Mexico.
     
  17. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    We have white smoke out of Nicaragua: FENIFUT is reporting that the CCL will adopt the following format.

    Stage 1

    16-team knockout round in the fall. Participants:

    • 2 from Costa Rica
    • 2 from Honduras
    • 2 from Guatemala
    • 2 from Panama
    • 2 from El Salvador
    • 2 from Nicaragua
    • 1 from Belize
    • 3 from the Caribbean
    They are to be drawn into home-and-away playoffs, paring the field down to 1 fall CCL winner.

    Stage 2

    16-team knockout round in the spring. Participants:

    • 1 CCL fall winner
    • 4 from Mexico
    • 4 from the US
    • 1 from Canada
    • 5 from Central America
    • 1 from the Caribbean
    Drawn into the CCL Round of 16 proper, eliminations until we have a champion and CWC representative.
     
  18. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Hope this doesn't actually pan out (I think?). Silver lining from the US/Canada perspective though; teams would be participating in the tournament far closer to their time of qualification than they do now.
     
  19. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    Will they, though? Right now, we have the 2016-17 CCL quarterfinals on the horizon, and we have Seattle, Dallas, NYRB, Colorado and Toronto assuming that they've qualified for next season's continental championship. If CONCACAF wants the 2017-18 CCL to include qualifiers from the 2017 MLS season, what do we do with the qualifiers from the 2016 season?
     
  20. AlleXyS

    AlleXyS Member

    Apr 22, 2014
    Club:
    FC Steaua Bucuresti
    Country:
    Romania
    why not? even now you see 4 mexican clubs almost each year :p every confederation have a country which dominate the Champions League. Copa Libertadores have Brazil (with some argentinian teams, like Mexico vs USA in CCL), UEFA have Spain, Asia have South Korea, Oceania have New Zeeland, CONCACAF have Mexico, only CAF have more (Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, Congo DR, Morocco) :p

    For me, as a neutral supporter will be better to see 8 teams in quarterfinals like America, Tigres, Toluca, Pachuca, Monterrey, Herediano, Montreal Impact and Seattle Sounders for example.
     
    song219 and It's called FOOTBALL repped this.
  21. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I can't imagine that USSF would want to send teams to tournaments that start 18 months after they qualify. I'm sure there would be a transition of a sort. 2017-18 entrants are locked in, presumably, so for 2018-19 (which for US purposes would only be 2019), you send SS/MLS Cup winners from the 2017 and 2018 seasons, then go back to the allocations they have now for future years.
     
    Paul Calixte repped this.
  22. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    If I wanted to watch Mexican teams play each other, I'd watch Liga MX. Same reason I don't get excited for La Liga rematches in the UEFA Champions League.
     
  23. dinamo_zagreb

    dinamo_zagreb Member+

    Jun 27, 2010
    San Jose, CA / Zagreb, Croatia
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    Croatia
    I don't like it, at all. We lose the "league", the "cup" returns. And it's again too much teams. 31. :ROFLMAO: FFS.
     
    It's called FOOTBALL repped this.
  24. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    Also, if there are Caribbean qualifiers in each stage, do we now have two CFU club championships in the same year? Is there a league in the works? What is going on?!
     
  25. It's called FOOTBALL

    It's called FOOTBALL BigSoccer Yellow Card

    May 4, 2009
    So we come full circle back to the CCC, which everyone complained about, bringing about the CCL. What a fking joke

    I'm speechless tbh. This is like getting demoted back to a boring dead end job after a few years in a better job you didn't belong at. Just a sad ending.

    No other league but Mexico deserves 4 teams directly into the octofinals. 3 for the #2 league, and so on. Ridiculous again. Sigh, 2016 won't stop until we're all in a brain dead stupor.
     

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