Champions League Knockout Stage Assists Since 91/92 Season

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by ChizzyChisnall, May 3, 2018.

  1. ChizzyChisnall

    Feb 2, 2017
    Club:
    AC Siena
    Xavi and Giggs leads the way with 13 UCL knockout stage assists.
     

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  2. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Nice work again mate!

    I think you mean from 1998/99 though according to the data? Maybe get a mod to re-title the thread if so, unless you can do it?

    I know with double group stages etc not every year is comparable ofc anyway.

    But yeah, great work and well done dedicating the time and effort to look into it.
     
  3. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Oh no, sorry, looking closer you do mean from 91/92 onwards (you have for example Savicevic and Moller listed, but the tables just show the actual numbers from 98/99 onwards I see so none are indicated since then for those players; and for example we can deduce Beckham has one knockout assist before 98/99 and Zidane 7).
     
  4. ChizzyChisnall

    Feb 2, 2017
    Club:
    AC Siena
    I couldn't upload the entire EXCEL file so I had to take screenshots instead. I do have the data from 1991-92 to 1997-98.

    Here is the google doc for it: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LBmnJ2pU2ev905H2nIZQm3AymzUmvqeUgCZqEfpK6V8/edit?usp=sharing
     
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  5. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
  6. ChizzyChisnall

    Feb 2, 2017
    Club:
    AC Siena
    No worries at all. If someone else posted the same picture and title I would be confused too.
     
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  7. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    So the most knock-out assists in a single season:

    1 - Giggs (06/07) - 6
    2= Zidane (97/98) - 5
    2= Govou (04/05) - 5

    Interestingly, Govou didn't have any knock-out assists in any other season!

    Giggs and Zidane had single games with a good haul of assists to achieve those single season totals (Giggs at home to Roma, and Zidane away to Dynamo Kiev).
     
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yeah and one of Giggs assists against Roma was actually deflected (without the deflection it hadn't reached Smith) and with one other in the same match Cristiano had to drive the ball and breeze past Chivu to launch his shot. Giggs had 4 assists in this 7-1 win, where AS Roma was countered and overpowered.

    In the AC Milan game Giggs delivered a corner kick assist, but Dida deflected the ball two times. First with his mistimed save, then with his last ditch attempt to keep the ball out of the net.

    This is not meant as criticism of Giggs but I'd doubt whether it's always applied in the same manner, although it's good to have this feel. It also matches with what 'Voetbal International' showed for the 1992-2012 assists tally.
     
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  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Also interesting Arjen Robben doesn't do so well with assists (well, isn't the preferred set piece taker either - and a stereotype move was to attract two defenders and then pass the ball to 'free' Lahm for the assist) but does do very well with regards to KO stage goals, and goals in quarter finals, semi finals and finals. Esp. with 5 goals in semis and finals he ranks high. There Ribery and him flip the tables.
     
  10. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yeah, as a scorer maybe Robben would be better suited from the right side, but as an assister from the left as he might specialise more in darting past full-backs and cutting balls back rather than floating a cross onto a striker's head?

    I guess Ribery better suited to the left for both things though.
     
  11. ChizzyChisnall

    Feb 2, 2017
    Club:
    AC Siena
    Here is the distribution sheet by match:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Gr6oysK23NEDAdPqH4y8mfpTRucNT7Txm6Fwyy7kAdo/edit?usp=sharing

    Only Ryan Giggs vs Roma 06/07 and Govou vs Bremen 04/05 had 4 assists in one match in the KO stages of champions league. Zidane vs Dynamo Kyiv 97/98 and Ribery vs Basel 11/12 are the two instances of a hat trick of assists in KO match.
     
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  12. ChizzyChisnall

    Feb 2, 2017
    Club:
    AC Siena
    UEFA doesn't always apply its assist criteria consistently. For example, the Busquets to Messi assist in the 10/11 RM vs Barcelona tie is not given.
     
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  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #13 PuckVanHeel, May 4, 2018
    Last edited: May 4, 2018

    Yes re: your question, I think Robben can give an egoistic impression on the right, while this was totally not an issue at all on the left. He does have a high amount of assists against real top teams while he was on the left (really), and a higher assist ratio in general from the left.

    This is not against a 'real' top team, but provides an idea.


    (you can also watch the compilation against Czech Republic at euro 2004)

    I don't think it is a matter of ability (click for video) since his crossing statistics and accuracy are about as good/better as Ribery, who is an elite winger himself. So it's a matter of attitude and of tactics. ('attitude' is maybe a strong word - for many pros - attacking players even more so - it's an automated process; Messi and Ronaldo have both said that they don't "think" while playing, at best only at a very basic level)

    The sample size is increased when you look at his games against Borussia Dortmund. In 22 games he scored 11 open play goals (which is very good), but only ~6 assists.

    Part of that is his (perceived) attitude. Another part is the role the overlapping right-back plays. You could see that very well in the 3-0 loss against PSG (this season) where he was a substitute. Immediately he tied two men to him, and he provided a handful times a freed crossing opportunity to Kimmich. This wasn't happening before his entry. Naturally this decreases the amount of direct assist opportunities, as trying an assist would then be the egoistic option! It's really a stereotype play we've seen the past decade.

    Also relevant is the right-footedness of the receivers. Thomas Muller, and Lewandowski, is good in timing his runs but is right-footed and against a higher level, the highest athletic levels, that can be crucial. Robben playing a through ball from the right (or right half-space) often means the receiver has to trap the ball with his left (think also of Messi-Alba here). Ribery playing a through-ball - from left to middle - has the receiver trapping it with his right. For a Thomas Muller that can be crucial, instead of receiving with outside of right boot or the left foot.

    Here on 5:19 an assisted goal that Lewandowski trapped with his left (and then one other at 5:24 from a central position)

    I don't want to totally downplay his own 'egoism', although it is probably good for something since he has the all-time highest win percentage in both the Premier League and Bundesliga! (no joke - I don't say he's the best winner or so but can't be mere coincidence). But I respect you might argue with me! The injuries are a shame, but also respect for his perseverance in a way.
     
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  14. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yes indeed, had noticed that while compiling and researching for 2002-03. A comparable one to Cristiano vs Chivu against Roma (assist Giggs) is Seedorf to Shevchenko in the 2003 semi final (one closer to goal and more into a direct shooting position for Sheva), which wasn't awarded to him.
     
  15. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    And yes - I just needed to check - Ribery indeed has a strong personal preference to play on the left. For scoring too.
    With right-footed receivers who are neither as fast or equally ambidextrous as - for ex. - Neymar that can help. The more so on the higher levels. We also see that currently with left footed James, who is playing very well from that left of center position but is a lot less productive (in a direct sense) from the right.

    An quickly improvised Robben assist that I liked is this one (also assisted the first goal with a header).
     
  16. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yes, it seemed like he managed to put perfect weight on that assist while also improvising impressively (also a perfect weight on the header assist I suppose).
     
  17. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord

    It has only a sideways connection to the thread but this is from Jimmy Burns his most recent work (not sure whether I'll read/buy because it's on Messi and Ronaldo and "the race to greatest of all-time" - but maybe I will flip through it):

    [​IMG]


    N.B. This high praise for Rijkaard can feel very odd (which, after googling, Messi seems to have done a number of times). Peculiarly, if one types in 'messi cruyff' in youtube, then the first video has Cruijff highlighting Rijkaard his job in the process. Saying he evaded all delicate mistakes a coach can make [with young talents/supertalents], and more.
     
  18. ChizzyChisnall

    Feb 2, 2017
    Club:
    AC Siena
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  19. ChizzyChisnall

    Feb 2, 2017
    Club:
    AC Siena
    I only tallied matches from group stage on (so no qualifying matches and no 1st and 2nd round matches for 1991-92, 1992-93, and 1993-94 seasons even though they are matches for the UCL tournament proper). So Ryan Giggs would actually have 42 assists if we count the cross assist vs Honved and the create own goal assist vs Galatasaray in the first two rounds of 93/94 campaign.

    Assist types I identified for my project (1 assist can have multiple types):

    Solo Assist
    Through Ball
    Cutback
    Cross
    Low Cross
    Long Pass
    Over The Top
    Diagonal Pass
    Side Pass
    Short Pass
    Forward Pass
    1-2
    No-look Pass
    Reverse Pass
    Drop Pass
    Looped Pass
    Lift Pass
    Poke Pass
    Backheel
    Volley
    Half-volley
    Bicycle Kick
    Tackle
    Tap
    Touch
    Flick
    Knockdown
    Header
    Deflection
    Unintentional
    Shot-cross
    Shot
    Rebound
    Rebound Blocked
    GK Throw
    Throw-in
    Create PK
    Create FK
    Cross FK
    Cross CK
    Short FK
    Short CK
    Create OG
     

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  20. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Just a quick note on Ronaldo's assist record
    He made 4 assists in the 2008/09 champions league campaign Including 2 strict assists and 2 wide assists (rebound shots)
    1 strict assist vs Aalborg (groupstage)
    1 strict assist vs Arsenal (semi final)

    1 wide assist vs Celtic (away)

    8:10-8:25

    1 wide assist vs Celtic 08/09(home)

    3:40-3:55
    That would bring the assist tally you recorded for him up to 39(1 behind giggs and figo)
     
  21. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    @ChizzyChisnall
    Another assist I didn't even notice on the 2nd video at 4:10-4:20
    A through ball assist which would mean he made 5 assists in the 08/09 champions league season and 40 assists in total(now equal with Ryan giggs and Louis figo)
     
  22. ChizzyChisnall

    Feb 2, 2017
    Club:
    AC Siena
    The assist totals after and including 01/02 season I took from UEFA.com, which does not explicitly follow the assist rules I set (such as counting create own goals, rebounds, create PK, etc.). If it was me doing all the work by hand, these assists you showed me all would be counted. But I didn't have time to do that for the 2001-02 to 2017-18 seasons.

    UEFA.com only has assist stats after and including the 01/02 season. The 91/92 to 00/01 seasons I did by hand.
     
  23. ChizzyChisnall

    Feb 2, 2017
    Club:
    AC Siena
    UEFA counted these two assists for Cristiano Ronaldo in 08/09 season:

    Away vs Aalborg assisting Berbatov
    https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsl...2009/matches/round=15276/match=302713/events/

    Away vs Arsenal assisting Park Ji-Sung
    https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsl...2009/matches/round=15279/match=302811/events/

    UEFA didn't count any others though.
     
  24. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
  25. Danko

    Danko Member+

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    i find it incredible that Neymar already has 21 assists. He had another one in Matchday 1 a few weeks ago so he's already got 22 right. He's got an assist rate of 0.46 per match which is almost double that of Messi and Ronaldo.
     

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