Carabao Cup 3rd Rd., The Arsenal v. Forest, 24 September 2019

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by ArsenalJake, Sep 22, 2019.

  1. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Nice gave a lot more info about it - i just didn't bother to post it

    But yeah, in essence back 5, Kante in central midfield, Lulz didn't get exposed. At his age, its much more difficult in a 2 if he is going to be exposed 1:1 - he isn't VVD!
     
    Shen-O repped this.
  2. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    This is exactly what I have been saying the whole time. This is what he used to be good at.
     
  3. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    You can’t follow, and I can’t help that. My point all along was that Ozil used to beat people off the dribble in transitions (he could beat a player with a quick shift and then exploit the space behind them) and he could work his way out of tight spaces. I don’t see him doing that anymore. I never argued what casoccerdad said. I added onto it with my comment. Anyway, this whole thing is boring. Please stop replying to me. I’m not your type. Thanks.
     
  4. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He still kind of does that pretty well, we just suck at getting out to get opportunities and ... he never gets picked. So it doesn’t happen often.

    I’ve been growing curious about how much he really has dropped off in terms of pace. I was really thinking that it was big part of his apparent decline, but he looked pretty lively in preseason.

    Its so difficult to judge when it seems like he hasn’t really been given any real chance to prove himself since that awful summer.
     
    casoccerdad47 and wanye_stirrear repped this.
  5. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    That was one of the instances that came to my head, which made me bring up that WC reference.
     
  6. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tbf, I could skin Gareth Barry. :cool:

    I just wouldn’t look as good doing it.
     
  7. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A propos of nothing, never forget that Phil Jagielka was the fastest player in the PL for the past 5-6 years.
     
  8. Shen-O

    Shen-O Member+

    United States
    Jul 26, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
    Thanks mate
     
    casoccerdad47, maskito and Tonerl repped this.
  9. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This picture made me sad. Of all the games in the last 11 years that I'm mad about, this one, Monaco, and the Busacca game are tied atop the list.
     
    maskito and The Jitty Slitter repped this.
  10. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Busacca match...blech. People seem to think we were always going to lose the tie, but we were leading it at the time of the insane decision. Never forget.

    But Monaco? We fvcked ourselves in that one. Why not the Liverpool quarterfinal? That one was an absolute travesty and a sham and a mockery. It was a traveshamockery!
     
    mebeSajid and maskito repped this.
  11. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Wenger kind of wrecked that version of Ozil when he cut the sprints way down

    I get the idea of trying to create the v2 mature version of Ozil but it didn't work very well IMO - the record assisting season aside
     
  12. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland


    @casoccerdad47 This video shows what I was talking about. It’s just as described. He was good in the transitions and in the open field, and he could get out of tough spots. You can see plenty examples of both in the video.

    I do agree though that he is a pass-first type player, but he seems to have lost a big part of his game.
     
  13. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I think he has lost a step for sure - but my impression has been more a player with chronic injury issues. I think it wasn't the right move for him playing the World Cup in summer 2018. Maybe he will be better with a full preseason ...
     
  14. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Yep - that is the Ozil we miss!

    All the talking about "bad body language" which was already going on in Germany's 2014 World Cup campaign really obscured the fact that he had genuine pace.

    When we looked at the 2014 data from the Fifa site he had the 2nd highest sprint total of any german player and IIRC also had the highest peak speeds. So in terms of energy outputs he actually worked the hardest of anyone in the side.

    I think Wenger wanted him to play in a more controlled way
     
  15. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah probably but losing a step from clocking some of the highest speeds in world football doesn’t mean he can’t run anymore.

    Still think he could be very valuable if he was put in a good situation, but Emery never tried.
     
  16. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    The build up is much slower, and with overlapping wingbacks, many times there isn’t the space behind for him to exploit.
     
  17. Shen-O

    Shen-O Member+

    United States
    Jul 26, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some of mine go farther back

    1. Busacca.
    1a. Rooney’s dive at OT to kill our 50th match unbeaten.
    2. Gibbs slipping in the box right away during CL semi at home, 2009 IIRC. Thought we had a great shot to go through.
    3. Losing the return fixture in 04-05 at home to United when they kicked us off the park.
    4. Losing that Liverpool tie in CL after Walcott’s run.
    5. Birmingham-Eduardo-Gallas
    6. Losing title to Leeds at home on final day, 2002.
     
  18. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Leeds was 03 wasn’t it? For me, the most heart breaking game was Birmingham as we were going to win the league

    Then Liverpool quartet final, wtf was with 08?

    We should’ve repeated in 05 and 03

    The game at ot in 05 was peak fergy bullshit. Neville kicked Reyes off the park and no yellow
     
    yossarian repped this.
  19. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The worst for me was CL semi-final against Utd when Almunia let in a 40 yard free kick. The stadium was absolutely rocking and after 15 minutes the game was over.

    Other than that it was the Liverpool CL game (when Walcott ran 100 yards and Adebayor celebrated alone).
     
  20. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Almunia, another of wengers great ideas
     
  21. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    Tactical changes instituted by Emery may account, at least in part, for last years decline, but the improvement in efficiency occurred in his second season at Arsenal, so I suspect Wenger may have played a role.

    Interestingly, he has gotten by midfielders on the turn at least once in each of the games he played this year. Against Forest the midfielder grabbed his jersey to pull him back.
     
    Super Llama repped this.
  22. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    This is a highlight video, how many games does it represent?

    BTW you can still see him getting out of tough spots today.
     
    Super Llama repped this.
  23. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    Highlight video or not, it shows plenty of examples of what I was talking about. It’s easy to see.
     
  24. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Ozil was the third fastest player on the team when Bellerin and Theo we’re here. Wenger used him as the guy to run behind the defense over Sanchez that one season because he was faster than Sanchez.

    He has lost a step from those days.
     
  25. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Guys, let's lay off the personal attacks. Thanks.
     

Share This Page