The Triangle in NC isn't really considered "big market" but then again, we only ended up with the Courage after Orlando fell through. And, if irc (and if my sources were anywhere close to correct) the Courage were one of the few teams that were getting very close to the break-even point right b/f the league went under due to its own financial mismanagement. For travel to work on a national scale, the "small market" teams need to have relatively decent airport access. But that still leaves a lot of markets. Hell, they should look at a sponsorship & ad deal w/ Southwest -- play on the whole we travel with a lot gear/bags and Southwest doesn't charge us for each bag. I don't think Southwest takes over Tran Air's ATL routes (or their other routes) until next year so, that'd be a problem. But not one that is insurmountable.
I wonder if four teams would actually join next season. 1. Los Angeles/Southern Cal. 2. Toronto 3. Seattle 4. Chicago Red Stars . . . . . . . . . #. Dallas(there's way too many cities that should have a team before Dallas).
Should? Perhaps. But if an investor steps up and is willing to buy tickets to the dance, let 'em in door and make space on the floor.
If there is talk about Vancouver/Portland, was it about a potential Vancouver/Portland rivalry (which would indicate Vancouver, Canada) or about a potential Vancouver/Portland team (which would indicate Vancouver, Washington -- Portland and Vancouver are in the same Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area and are a single market)? The new Portland Timbers MLS franchise already has sold in excess of 10,000 season tickets and all its boxes and will be playing in Multnomah Stadium, which is in downtown Portland and is undergoing a huge renovation to make it a classic soccer stadium. With the already existing Portland Pilots fan base, which this year had about 2500 non-student regular game attendees, it seems like a logical place for a franchise.
They probably should grow slow going west (or start a separate Western Division where they only play in the playoffs) If WPS wants to save/make money, they should forget about LA, Seattle, Vancouber (or start the Western Division).
Four is a lot of expansion teams to add at one time - should be a heck of an expansion draft. On the other hand, WPS doesn't seem to be at all concerned with establishing a team identity based on the players, considering how many were made free agents after the 2010 season.
Why are people still worried about distance between teams? The Breakers GM said last season that travel costs really aren't that big a part of WPS budgets... Well, there were very few players with contracts for more than two years when WPS started - you could probably count them on your hands. Which I think was a smart, if not very palatable, move - until WPS proves to be more stable, there's nor reason to be signing players to four-or-more-year deals. With a 2011 season guaranteed and a 2012 season looking likely, I think we might start seeing team identities start to solidify from 2012 and (hopefully) on. Some teams have also been doing better than others in forming identities. Boston's been relatively constant, I bet Washington would be too if it hadn't been sold recently, and I'm sure that if St. Louis hadn't crashed on us we would be seeing Lori, Hope, Tina, Eni, etc. returning for 2011 as well. Though I agree, four new teams in one season would be quite a lot. Heck, that's almost like creating an entire new league (think 5+5 vs. 6+4). If it does happen, I would almost think an entire re-allocation might be better. Might. =-/
...I'm confused. Is the Fury organization having two teams in WPSL this year, then? LI Fury and NY Fury? And at this point, I think they're being incredibly optimistic about there being WPS in 2013... Not that we've heard anything negative from current owners like we were hearing about CHI and WSH throughout the season last year, but we haven't heard anything positive, either. That aside, would we have to start worrying about saturation if the Fury joined? Not that we aren't already with all teams currently in the east, but the Fury would be competing in almost the exact same market as Sky Blue, right?
Don't think it's that much worse than Philly-DC or Philly-NJ. I had some northern New Jersey soccer-fan friends during the WUSA era, and you couldn't pay them to go out on Long Island where the New York Power played. I had an easier time getting them to come down to DC to see their team play at RFK.
(Article mentioned in main forum: ) http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/...ence-playing-at-PPL-Park.html?ref=twitter.com This kinda surprises me: I mean, we've talked about at least four expansion before - CHI, LA, VAN, DAL, etc. in particular - but what surprises me is that he said there were three in California alone! Lets see, I guess... OC Waves, Bay Area Breeze, and...? Also looks like NY Fury, mentioned in above posts, might join in 2012 instead of 2013... Any other guesses? Interesting to see that all the press in making magicDan want to stay in. Interesting to see what will become of that, though I'm glad to hear that at least there are some signs that I was wrong to worry about him dropping out. As for who's definitely in for next year, I'm surprised to not see WNY listed, as they're the newest and have probably the deepest pockets in the league. I'm kinda upset that Sky Blue is the only team of the original seven that still looks strong in terms of sticking around, but then again the only other team I could look to at this point who's from the original seven is Boston, and we know last year they didn't commit to the league until at least five other teams did as well, so... Sticks-in-the-mud. =-P
More expansion tidbits from Philly; this time it's owner David H. on MLS-WPS relationships: http://www.examiner.com/soccer-in-n...independence-owner-david-halstead-looks-ahead (courtesy of madisonroad) He's more reserved in terms of expansion than Paul was, but he's also giving more details.
Would much prefer a team in LI than in New Jersey, although time-wise it takes the same amount to travel to New Brunswick as it does to Garden City (where the Fury play) from NYC. Also Adelphi's soccer stadium, although pretty, only seats 1,600. Hopefully they'd move closer to the city (Belson Stadium at SJU?).
...I think I figured out what Paul meant by getting "New York back" - and how he got to 10 teams. The "back" part of his statement confused me, but he might have been talking about WNY - as he didn't mention it as one of the teams definitely in, and as I said earlier I would be very surprised to not see WNY in 2012. Then you get: 3 teams in Cali 1 other western team 1 CHI Red stars 1 WNY 4 PHI+ATL+NJ+BOS 10 total Granted, that wouldn't quite explain his treatment of BOS, but as I said earlier it seems to be BOS's MO to wait until the last minute to say "yes", so maybe he's assuming? That said, I would also love to see the Fury in WPS, 2012 or 2013. Considering what David said about some of the West Coast talks, I definitely think 10 teams for 2012 might be too hopeful, what with his "What is WPS, I might be interested" comment - eight might be more realistic an expectation.
The WUSA's New York Power played out on Long Island in Uniondale but got far and away the worst attendance in the league.
Put Santos in Florida, and have a lot of Brazilian players on their franchise. Spice up the league. Marta can play for Santos, which seems perfect for the league. Also, have Vancouver in the league, with lots of Canadian players on it. Christine Sinclair can play for Vancouver. Add the Fury. Add 3 California teams. Seattle or Portland. Dallas Chicago New York (to go along with Western New Year, so that's two New York teams) Retain: Boston, Sky Blue, Philly, Atlanta, Western New York, and bring MagicJack back to Washington Freedom). Add it all up, and BANG .... that's like 16 teams.
Maybe another team in LA that plays at the HDC (the track stadium)?????? Maybe you can get Santos FC to own that team and bring in Marta and other players????? Or maybe a team in San Diego?????
I think the most likely scenario that COULD happen is we see west coast expansion, and the return of some old teams like the Red Stars & Freedom. All this over the course of three years. WEST COAST Teams: Vancouver Seattle Portland Bay Area Southern California Denver Dallas RETURNING WPS Teams: Chicago Red Stars Washington Freedom OTHER EXPANSION Teams: Toronto NY Fury BY 2015, the league could be at 16 teams and possibly split into two conferences. EAST NY Fury Boston Breakers FC SkyBlue Philadelphia Independence Washington Freedom Atlanta Beat WNY Flash Toronto WEST Chicago Red Stars Vancouver Seattle Portland Bay Area Southern California Denver Dallas
i've said before a potential obstacle between the wps and santos fc the first time was probably the composition of their team. bottom line lupo and copagaz will only front the money for a brasil squad. maybe they start talks again, santos is required just to carry 5 north american players. santos' squad consist of christie, faby, aline, paula, erika, thais and other national team players. they basically play u15 teams in brasil outside of Poz, so the wps would be damn good competition. i'm guessing sahlen or magicjack might have a thing to say about marta, but santos fc has BIG money backing it, bigger than salhen and jack combined. i'm curious what stalled the first talks with the wps since they were looking to place their team in south beach. i don't know what the draw would be but santos in SB and Allen's group in Seattle carrying the Sounders women are 2 BIG, BIG fish for the wps. they really need to work the off season and 2013 since there are teams interested that yr also. i've also noted that a santos signing of Rincon would make sense for a cuban and colombian draw. it just makes more sense for them in the wps. brasilians more or less haven't done that well in the wps outside of marta and formiga, who is at Poz i think right now. they play much better together and santos is the testament to that.
Folks, I wouldn't speculate on many, if any teams joining the WPS in its current form for next season. WPS currently is too expensive for many investors to be interested in. Also it is a guarenteed money-losing venture. Who wants to do that unless you are like DB with money to throw and in need of a toy? Although I'm wishing it can happen, but don't get your hopes up high for the Chicago Red Stars coming back to the WPS. They will have to get another big investor or two for that to happen and a willingness to go back to WPS. They were comfortable in the WPSL this summer not playing too far away from home with mostly college players in a not so expensive soccer park. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see it happening. IMO, the structure and business model of the WPS will change in some way in order for investors to throw money at it. Frankly, I'm not even sure all the 6 teams that are there now will be back. And I'm not even talking about the MJ vs WPS fued.
William Bretherton covers the Atlanta Beat and the WPS for the Marietta Daily Journal and apparently is regular communication with Fitz Johnson. Here is a recent Tweet from (WilliamB_MDJ) : "Also, not in last night's story. But Fitz said that there would be reps from Hartford and Seattle at the WPS championship game next week" Could the Breakers be moving to Hartford ? Hope Solo to Seattle ? MagicJack (minus Hope) to SoCal ?
I doubt we'll see teams move from city to city (like WSH->mJ) unless one of the incoming owners wants one of the existing teams "as is". Solo to Seattle is something I could easily see, though. Also: FINALLY, and official to Seattle being a potential candidate. After so many people (both here and in blogs) throwing the idea around, we have someone not just relatively close to but within WPS hinting that there's an group in Seattle that's interested.