my report from what I saw at the first days of the CPL trials in Vaughan. Sorry no time to add pictures until at least tomorrow. http://www.rocketrobinsoccerintoronto.com/reports19/CPLF1011
HFX WanderersFC have announced that season ticket prices will range from $199 to $399. Every seat purchase will also include an authentic home jersey. #CanPL #HFXWanderersFC ⚓— The CanPL Hub (@thecanplhub) October 12, 2018
#HFXWanderersFC season ticket pricing is out. Entire east end is general admission supporter's section. Are west and south sides corporate suites only? #canpl pic.twitter.com/WNXTNvsLu7— Bespoke FC (@Bespoke_FC) October 12, 2018
my report from what I saw on the second day of the CPL trials in Vaughan. I've got pictures of both days in my reports. http://www.rocketrobinsoccerintoronto.com/reports19/CPLF1011 first day http://www.rocketrobinsoccerintoronto.com/reports19/CPLF1012 second day
Seems like Montreal Impact is having financial difficulties. Joey Saputo met the press yesterday. The club is losing $12MUS per year and has been doing so ever since joining MLS. Saputo a expliqué que ce ne serait pas un problème si le club perdait 1 ou 2 millions par année, mais pas 12M$. Ça ne peut pas continuer comme ça.— Jeremy Filosa 🎙 (@JeremyFilosa) October 12, 2018 -L'Impact désire aussi être plus visible au centre-ville de MTL. Peut-être y installer un point de vente.-L'Impact se donne 2 ans pour mobiliser le Qc inc et les partisans pour atteindre la rentabilité.— Jeremy Filosa 🎙 (@JeremyFilosa) October 12, 2018 s=19 -L'Impact a la 7e plus haute masse salariale, mais 18e au niveau des billets de saison, avec des prix les plus bas de la MLS.-Atlanta génère 2M$ chaque match. L'Impact en génère 500k$ lorsqu'il joue à guichet fermé. Il s'inquiète de la croissance rapide de la ligue.— Jeremy Filosa 🎙 (@JeremyFilosa) October 12, 2018 Voici quelques grandes lignes des sujets abordés par Joey Saputo aujourd'hui: @impactmontreal #imfc-Joey Saputo se dit déçu de l'état financier de son club depuis l'arrivée en MLS.-Les pertes financières sont de 11 à 12M$ par année.— Jeremy Filosa 🎙 (@JeremyFilosa) October 12, 2018 That same journalist makes this observation Joey Saputo a répété qu'il n'y était pas question que le club disparaisse. Il va se battre jusqu'au, ce club il y tient. Mais selon moi, la ligue va finir par faire des sérieuses pressions, si les choses ne se place pas d'ici 2 ans.— Jeremy Filosa 🎙 (@JeremyFilosa) October 12, 2018 https://twitter.com/JeremyFilosa/status/1050847057467109378?s=19 If Montreal doesn't do better within 2 years, the club might not be in MLS for much longer. I was also surprised at the lack of corporate support...
It isn’t uncommon for MLS teams to lose money. It is one of the reasons MLS requires that the ownership groups have at least one multi-bilionaire... That being said, if Saputo isn’t willing to put up with the loses, he always has the option to sell the team... He’d definitely turn a tidy profit considering they just “sold” the Crew for $150 million. It could work out in Montreal’s favor depending on who buys the team. Saputo hasn’t been a very good owner and the team should be doing better..
Not sure what this has to do with CPL... Nevertheless, they gave Chivas a lot of rope and that situation was much worse. I'm not worried about Montreal losing their team. Notice Saputo doesn't mention the money he's getting from TV and SUM. He's only talking about ticket revenue.
Found an English version so i could read it and it sounds like Robert left some things out? https://montrealgazette.com/sports/...tions-to-mitigate-11-million-annual-shortfall 1. This seems more like The Impact are trying to get Montreal to waive $2 million/year in property taxes that the Impact are paying for Stade Saputo and their training grounds. 2. The Impact are planning a $50 million renovation of Stade Saputo to add premium seating and improve amenities, but that’s on hold until the tax issue is resolved. 3. The Impact are raising ticket prices up to the league average, which is $46 Canadian and Montreal’s average is $13 less than that.. 4. Saputo is looking into making kids’ families pay for part of the academy expenses (which is a huge mistake, IMHO) All in all, I’d take the $12m in losses with a huge grain of salt. Saputo is trying to get money from the city and using the tried and true methodnof begging poverty.. I’m sure next he’ll threaten relocation if he doesn’t get what he wants..
The Saputo estate is one of Canada's richest... hard to find richer than him in Quebec. He did say that he was willing to get partners. Also, owning Bologna in Serie A who are flirting with relegation is extra pressure on his finances. Deep down, we know that it's his #1 priority
I can find you the tweet if you want but Filosa was asked if the losses took into account SUM and TV and the answer was yes. The circumstances between Chivas and Montreal are very different. There wasn't the level of interest in MLS in Chivas era as it is now. The journalist himself said it, there's a line up of important US cities and TV markets who wants to enter the league and are willing to spend hundreds of millions to get in. Assuming that MLS wouldn't do to Montreal what they almost pulled on Columbus is being in denial. Montreal is far from safe is this keeps up. I've seen enough American league pull the trigger on Canadian teams when demand from other markets was high to not be naive about it. Montreal Impact isn't more special than the Montreal Expos, Winnipeg Jets, Quebec City Nordiques or the Vancouver Grizzlies. It's naive to declare them safe, even the media sees that. Saputo is adamant at not selling, however, he's unwilling to keep losing 12M a year forever. CPL could be a solution to keep is team and stop bleeding money.
He's in desirable if he thinks the city will give him what he wants. 0% chance. Even the Habs don't get what they want. Words is the MLS pressure the club to raise the prices. Fans aren't happy about the new prices which could hurt their attendance unless they sign a marquee DP. The worst year was when they acquired Drogba. They lost 15M that year. You're right, that would be a huge mistake. He shouldn't be taken with a grain of salt. The Expos use the same tactic and they were relocated. Same for the Nordiques. This isn't the US, government don't cave on the whims of professional clubs. The city won't cave for the Impact. If he's struggling now, imagine in MLS 3.0. I don't think Vancouver or Montreal can keep up...
Just because he has money, it doesn’t mean he is a good owner. Just look at Robert Kraft and Stan Kroenke. They are two of the richest owners in MLS, but both are anong the worst owners because they aren’t giving their MLS teams the attention they need to succeed.
Considering MLS is single entity, I doubt he can jump ship. He can sell and then buy a CPL franchise.
There's most likely an opt out clause, especially for CSA sanctioned clubs. Their participation in MLS is conditional on the CSA approval on a yearly basis...it isn't eternal. It's not believable that all parties didn't protect their interests. Let's not forget that it started with TFC in 2006. MLS was hardly the league that it is today, so the CSA signing it's control over its club is unrealistic. Even when Montreal was in the process of joining, Saputo refused to spend 40M to join calling it a risk. He ended up joining for 35M. The context in which they join is important here. The CSA didnt signed away its rights over those 3, it still has last say on what they do and where. Don't have to like the answer but it's still reality
Let's see the tweet. Chivas was folded four years ago. It wasn't that long ago. You brought up the Expos. What Jeffrey Loria did to that team is the opposite of what Saputo is doing to the Impact. Loria did everything he could to sabotage that team so he could move it, including not building a new ballpark, not selling English TV/radio rights, and gutting the team. The two men are completely antithetical in how they ran/are running their respective teams. You and Filosa both mentioned a two year timeframe for Saputo to turn things around. It's not conceivable to me how MLS would try to move another team given the amount of pushback they got for trying to move Columbus. I could see certain clubs, including ironically TFC, who would oppose moving Montreal. Moving to the CPL isn't going to help him recuperate the $77 million he claims he's lost since joining MLS. You can argue his expenditures will be less but there's no way he'll make more. Impact tickets, for one, will not be sold at a $33 per ticket average, much less $46. Everything else, from the kit deal to the TV contract, will be smaller. That's just the economics of doing business in the Canadian market vs. a combined Canadian and American market.
some prices revealed in this brochure inside a program at the League 1 Ontario playoff game in Scarborough. This is Toronto's most eastern suburb and will be quite a drive to the new York 9 team but I like the spreading out to make a bigger footprint. the fine print says "*Plus HST and admin fees. Pricing based on End Zone Supporter Section, standing only general admission. Must be 19 years of age and older."
Oui— Jeremy Filosa 🎙 (@JeremyFilosa) October 13, 2018 The league is far different than 4 years ago And no governments were willing to bail the Expos. Same for the Nordiques, same for the old Jets. This is no different. Montrea will not bail out the Impact You're emplying that MLS cares about Canada over other markets. Does the NHL cares about what the Leafs or the Habs has to say? It's a well know fact that Jeremy Jacobs of the Boston Bruins is #3 in the NHL. You're exaggerating TFC power over the rest of the owners. Not in 2019, off course. The league needs to grow to that point where it makes financial sense. I use the CFL has a benchmark of CPL peaking pre-2026 assuming they indeed have 16 clubs coast to coast and meet all their goals by then which means they are ready to launch the Women's Premier League and CPL Division II: Tickets: The most expensive tickets for Forge FC is close to 33$. Charging more doesn't guarantee more revenues as you don't know if more fans will come at that step increase. You're omitting to say that currently Montreal have their revenues in Canadian dollars and spend in US dollars. In CPL, their revenues and spending would be in the same currency. That's a massive difference and allows them to control costs. TV: Using CFL as a benchmark, more Canadians watch CFL than Americans watches MLS with 1/10 of the population. The current CFL contract isn't that much far off from MLS contract. TV ratings in MLS isn't great either in comparison. That goes to the point above, despite TV, kit and SUM, Saputo is bleeding money regardless. You can't compare soccer (a global sport) with American sports (Regional sports). That logic simply doesn't work and that a huge reason why MLS isn't working that great in Canada. Outside of the 3 cities, no one cares about MLS nor watches it. They can't name you players. Canadians are soccer fans but those with no MLS clubs have zero incentive to be interested in MLS. They know it isn't the best league in the world so why bother? NBA, NFL, MLB and NHL are the best leagues in the world in their respective sports, MLS isn't so Canadian would rather watch EPL and Champions League. CFL is way lower quality than NFL but its Canadian by Canadian. All metrics (TV and attendance) surpasses MLS with 1/10 of the US population. Canadians, given a reason to invest, will care and support their own. That's what CPL Hope's to accomplish. Occupying the rest of the nation and address the 3 cities last. It's brilliant if you ask me.
To lose $11/year even after TV and SUM money is accounted for seems fishy to me. I'm skeptical as to how he's coming up with that number. You said there was less interest in the league in 2014. The TV numbers suggest that viewership is pretty much the same as it was four years ago despite it being "far different". But what is "far different" about the league though? Saputo's not asking for a bailout though. He's just asking the city to not charge him $2 million in taxes in exchange for infrastructure upgrade that he's self funding. That's more than what Loria ever did for the Expos. If you're trying to prove that the NHL is an American driven league that doesn't care about Canadian interests, then you just picked the worst two examples. The Leafs and the Habs are the two of the top three most valuable franchises in the NHL. These are teams that, even if they're on the west coast, if it's a Saturday night game, the game will start at 7:00 pm EST. That's sway. Could they single-handedly block another team from relocating? No. Do they have more sway in the room compared to the average owner? I'd be surprised if they didn't. That's the most expensive ticket as you mentioned. Montreal is currently charge that price ($33) as their average for 2018 and intend to increase that number in 2019. Which is why they're building premium seating areas because each premium ticket is worth more than a ticket in the supporters end, for example. When their share of SUM money comes in, that money is in US dollars as well. The salaries of non-DP players are also covered by the league so what really are they spending US dollars on, outside of Piatti and Taider? Why is the CFL the benchmark though? It's a league that's got a 60 year head start on CPL and 38 years on MLS. The TSN deal is worth ~$40 million CAD/year. The deals that MLS has with Univision, FOX and ESPN are worth $90 million US/year in addition to whatever regional TV money each club makes. The adidas deal itself is worth $700 million over six years. Combined, Montreal gets $9 million from those two sources, minus USSF's cut of that money. I don't see how the CPL can beat that in the near future. The ratings are apples vs oranges though. In every CFL game, you will have two Canadian TV markets to draw from. In MLS, you only have one unless it's an all Canadian match up. I hope the CPL does well and I will be a supporter. But let's not get ahead of ourselves before a ball has even been kicked. We've yet to see what the quality of play will be, so it could be possible that the CPL is "way lower quality" than MLS. I would not be so quick to assume that Montreal fans would rather pay $20 to see a starting XI with 8 Canadians as opposed paying $33 to see 2 Canadians playing alongside the likes of Di Vaio, Drogba, Taider, Piatti, etc.[/QUOTE]
The journalist and the owners are liars now? Is this how bad you want to believe that MLS is flawless? You have to assume that they are telling the truth here. And he's still losing on average 11 to 12M a year. He would be more likely to lose less in CPL while putting a competitive club on the pitch. It matters. That's a reason CPL will have better ratings in Canada than MLS. It will be, but that never stopped the CFL to be a successful league despite being much lower in quality than the NFL. A starting XI with 6 Canadians (half Quebecers) would sell more than you think. Especially if Quebec City has 6 starting Quebecers. The Quebec market is very unique and doesn't work like the rest. All those stars didn't help with TV or attendance. Saputo's early mistake was to not be located downtown Montreal. Then his marketing not be centered around Quebecers on the team like the captain Patrice Bernier and striker Anthony Jackson Hamel who was outscoring expensive DP Matteo Mancosu. That's how you screw up the opportunity to draw more fans in the province. Also, not engaging with the rest of the province was always a mystery to me. Outside of Montreal Island, not a soul cares about Montreal Impact or the MLS. When Quebec City arrives, the rest of the province is way more likely to care about them over Montreal. Quality of play will matter very little here. I hope the Impact change their ways but I doubt it. It's been 7 years and no changes
This article shows exactly why a Montreal bailout won't happen. https://ici.radio-canada.ca/sports/...taxes-ville-montreal-chronique-martin-leclerc Translation from CBC: It's always staggering to see how some sports team owners seem disconnected from the society in which they live. The last in the running is Joey Saputo, the owner of the Montreal Impact. A text by Martin Leclerc Last Friday, Mr. Saputo invited the media to a sort of round table during which he spent almost two hours unveiling the financial challenges facing his soccer club. In particular, he argued that his business loses about $ 11 million per season. To turn things around, he believes his company needs to be more combative and sell some 4,500 additional season tickets, which would allow him to join the MLS average. Ticket prices will also be increased to beautify the revenue column. Then the rabbit comes out of the hat ... *** To make the Impact more competitive financially compared to other formations, Joey Saputo would like to invest 50 million in the team's stadium to build lodges and some more luxurious sections that would significantly increase revenues. Unfortunately, he says, this major project remains on the ice because the property taxes of the City of Montreal are unfair and too high for his taste. For someone unfamiliar with the history of Saputo Stadium, Joey Saputo brilliantly pleads his case. He explains that the team pays about 2 million municipal taxes per year for the stadium and the training center, which is established on the site of the former Letourneux barracks. The stadium does not belong to him or the ground on which it is built, in the shadow of the Olympic stadium, he pleads. As for the training site, only the building belongs to the team, while the grounds on which the players and youths of the Academy train remain the property of the borough of Mercier-Hochelaga-Maisonneuve. "If I invest in the stadium, which does not belong to me, I will have to pay more property taxes and it would not be worth it [to renovate the stadium]. We pay 2 million municipal taxes a year for a stadium in which I invested 60 million during construction. Saputo Stadium does not belong to me. [...] We gave $ 60 million for Montreal to have a stadium. Today, I am taxed on a donation! Tax me on my business, but not on what I give! Says Joey Saputo. When you listen to him, you almost have the impression that this businessman, from a sophisticated background and a member of one of the richest families in Canada, is being extorted outright by the municipal administration. But that is not quite the case. *** In the mid-2000s, Joey Saputo decided to build a stadium for his club, which had existed for almost 15 years. No one was demonstrating in the streets for Montreal to get a soccer stadium. This project responded solely and specifically to the needs of the Bleu-blanc-noir and was the centerpiece of a business plan prepared by its owner. Initially, the project was modest. The works were supposed to cost 15 million. For reasons that belong to them, the owners of the Impact then decided to place their stadium under the legal framework of a non-profit organization (NPO). But in the end, the legal personality of the stadium does not matter. This stadium was not built for the population. Its raison d'être is simple: it is the home and headquarters of the Montreal Impact just like the Bell Center is the home and head office of the Canadiens. And all the income that comes out, about $ 500,000 per game according to Mr. Saputo, is found in the coffers of his company. The construction of the stadium finally cost 17 million. According to the documents submitted by the Impact and the RIO at the time, the Saputo family donated $ 7.5 million to the NPO and the rest of the construction was financed over 25 years. In addition, the stadium was built on RIO land, which allowed the Impact to save a considerable amount. The bill to buy land located in the heart of the city, near a subway line and large enough to build a stadium would certainly be several million. To allow Joey Saputo to use the premises as he pleased as if he were the owner, the City of Montreal then granted him a very modest 40-year long generous lease. Incredibly, ten years later, Joey Saputo comes out on the public square to argue that since the land does not belong to him, he should not be subject to the same taxation regime as the other corporate citizens of Montreal! Memory is a faculty that forgets, no doubt. In the early 2010s, shortly after the opening of the stadium, Joey Saputo's company got a grant from the MLS. Expansion work then became necessary to meet league requirements and upgrade the stadium capacity from 13,000 to 20,000 seats. To offset the bill, the Quebec government then extended no less than $ 23 million. Expansion work eventually cost $30 million. Generously, the owner of the Impact then put his hand in his pocket to find the missing 7 million. If you followed the story well, the Saputo stadium finally cost $ 47 million, nearly half of which was borne by Quebec taxpayers. Not to mention the land graciously offered by the RIO. As for Joey Saputo, he has offered a soccer stadium for the modest sum of some 14.5 million, which is exceptional. However, we are far from the $ 60 million donation Joey Saputo claims to have generously given to Montrealers. (A parenthesis here to emphasize that since its construction, the stadium of the Impact has inherited the name Saputo stadium.Usually, companies pay real fortunes to give their name and attach their logo at a stadium or amphitheater. For example, Vidéotron paid $ 33 million for the new Québec City amphitheater to bear its name, a sum to which will be added $ 30 million if Quebec one day obtains an NHL franchise A "gift" of $ 7.5 million is it sufficient for Saputo companies to obtain this privilege, and if so, the resulting spinoffs far outweigh the $ 14.5 million Joey Saputo invested in "the stadium that does not belong to him".) *** The other part of the story that Mr. Saputo forgot to mention is that no later than in 2017, when all Montrealers were faced with the usual tax hikes, the Impact and the Canadian have miraculously seen the property assessments of Saputo Stadium and the Bell Center fall! As if by magic, the Saputo Stadium property assessment went from 43.9 to 33.7 million, a drop of nearly 25%. In April 2017, the daily newspaper La Presse reported that the tax bill of the Impact had been reduced in equivalent proportions, or $ 393,000 per year. What landowner in Montreal would not dream of seeing his tax bill drop by 24.4%? And as luck would have it, the training center tax bill was also reduced by $ 18,000 a year (16.6%). For the past two years, the Impact has saved more than $ 800,000 in property taxes because the City of Montreal has listened to Joey Saputo's grievances. As a victim of unjust taxation, we have probably seen worse. Despite all of the above, on Friday, October 12, 2018, Mr. Saputo found that it was a good idea to call the media representatives to complain about his municipal tax bill. He even confided that he had met with the mayor of Montreal, Valérie Plante, to ask him to intervene on his behalf. Perhaps Joey Saputo has forgotten that just 10 months ago, when she had just been elected mayor, Mrs. Plante denied an election promise and bludgeoned Montrealers with a rise in taxes of 3.3%, which was to be the biggest increase of the last six years? It paid a heavy political price for this clumsiness, which however justified by the great urgency of renovating the infrastructures of the city. It will be very interesting to see if the mayor, when all ordinary citizens tighten their belts, will feel challenged by the so-called injustice that Joey Saputo and the leaders of the Impact complain about.
Robert is convinced that CPL will be a huge success and that either the 3 MLS teams will be better off joining it or if that doesn't happen CSA will remove their sanctioning. Let's say that businesses can be economical with the truth when it comes to getting tax exemptions, the most common being an over-generous estimate of the economic impact of a team moving to a particular city or neighborhood. The promise. "Orlando, Fla.- Orlando City SC (OCSC) held a press conference on Tuesday, Oct. 9, at the Amway Center to present the Economic Impact Study the team commissioned from CS&L. The study showed that a new Major League Soccer (MLS) stadium would have a $1.2 billion economic impact on the local area. The presentation, led by OCSC President Phil Rawlins, was yet another step on the team’s journey toward an MLS franchise for Central Florida." The reality: "Five years after Harrison, a working-class town of 14,000, spent $40 million to acquire land for the [Red Bull] arena, it is unclear whether the town’s bet on pro sports was a masterstroke or a massive misstep. The development that Harrison’s investment was supposed to spark has mostly stalled on the blocks closest to the facility. The stadium itself and its namesake team are at a crossroads. The Red Bulls’ most marketable star retired last fall and a new rival team starts play at Yankee Stadium in the Bronx this spring. The glory days of Harrison and the Red Bulls could be over before they’ve begun."
I am convince that CPL will be a success in Canada, yes. If CPL is the success that it can be, it's financial environment could be a better fit for some of them if the league grows to the point where it makes sense for now...Obviously not before at the very least post 2026. -Montreal has financial difficulties and Saputo himself said he couldn't go on forever at this rate. We discussed many scenario on the Voyageurs Forum and there's pessimism that he can turn this around. Lowering spending might turn off more fans which he can't afford now. Hiking the ticket price could increase revenue but that won't increase the number of season ticket holders and runs the risk of losing some. Can he penetrate the rest of the province beyond the Island? Not with his current marketing tactics which have been a failure. Even less likely with Quebec City in CPL and the league hovering over Laval, north of the Island. -Vancouver, without going public like Saputo did on financial matters are likely in the same boat. Lenarduzzi already said that the club will only spend within their mean and hope to compete...in MLS 3.0 he'll need to overachieve. He effectively and publicly shut the door in increasing spending for the foreseeable future. It's fine but the fans in Vancouver aren't liking it one bit and the club must constantly defend themselves to the media and season ticket holders. With CPL in Victoria, Alberta and targeting Surrey and Kelowna, it won't get any better. Also, there's no way in hell Vancouver approves a Waterfront stadium...They are in a similar environment than Montreal while being much smaller. -Toronto FC is likely the only club who can keep this up even in MLS 3.0, thanks to being part of MLSE with the Raptors and Maples Leafs printing dollars. Assuming the other 2 stays in MLS or aren't kicked out at some point, TFC will be fine. However, what is TFC without the other 2 teams in the league? How does the CSA deals with such a scenario? -The CSA is sanctioning the 3 under the exceptional situation that there was no other Division1 league in Canada. The sanctioning is ongoing because CPL still officially has yet to start. IF...the day comes where CPL grows enough to be a viable D1 CONCACAF league, justiying the ongoing sanctioning will be tough, not impossible but tougher. CONCACAF & FIFA are against cross border leagues.
From the very beginning of this process we have strived to find our “1,000 true fans” as we know they will be the force that drives the future of this club. A heartfelt 🙏 to all who have supported our vision and put their money where their hearts are by becoming founding members https://t.co/XvnrqNcRTc— Derek Martin (@WandererDerek) October 15, 2018