I saw a comment from Peter Wilt that said compared to the other costs associated with running a professional team, travel costs aren’t what will kill a team. They certainly aren’t zero, but paying for players, staff, insurance, stadium, marketting, etc. is where the real money is. That’s my concern. 26 teams in 8 years seems... ambitious..
I'm not talking about eligibility, I'm talking about logistical practicality: it's hard to get to class when your team is on the road!
Sure, but the school excuses that because it's for the school. They don't, for example, make the same concession if you're just picking up a shift at Domino's. Which this would be the equivalent of.
Sorry, I don't see 26 in 2026. Not enough players to meet the demand for that many clubs, not enough time to build stadiums and run proposals through councils, and not enough money to run these clubs at that professional a level. Not to mention the inevitable failure of some clubs within 7 years. I'd be satisfied if they could get 15 clubs running by 2026, though I think capping the CPL at 24 clubs would be more sustainable.
According to the league, travel costs are accounted for and as the stability of ownership, the league thoroughly evaluate them and submit them to financial "stress test" using Clanachan words to ensure that they are financially capable of being part of CPL
One way or another it was going to be around 26 clubs. Previously it was supposed to be 16 clubs by 2026 and after that, they would start Division II Now they are seems to be willing to grant clubs as they are ready and split the league in half post 2026. Not enough players: There is enough players coming up through the ranks for that projected year. Quality will be the question. CPL may very well end up being like most Euro league where those who got the head start and secured the top available Canadians and affiliations with top available academies might routinely be the top 3 of the leagues for a while like Barca and both Madrid. Stadiums: Modular stadiums takes a few months to build, not years. CPL seems to be moving to take over the construction of stadiums, most likely at the ownership and/or municipality cost once the land is acquired/agreed for rental. This is indeed a smart way to speed things up. Municipalities and politicians: The ground work there seemed to have already started in Saskatoon, Surrey, Mississauga. Let's not forget that St.john's & Moncton already have stadiums ready to go tomorrow. The Halifax deal was done fairly quickly. Bigger cities takes more time but the construction of the stadium itself is very fast. Not enough money: That's flat out false. There's lot of money in across the country. If CPL can get them at the table, that's actually a lesser worry. We're this world 10th economy. The challenge was always to get that wealth at the table to invest in soccer. So far, of those who's networth is public, Cavalry has the deepest pockets through the Southern Family who are amongst Canada's richest. Unlikely they sit at the same table as questionable owners who wouldn't be able to afford the venture long term. Actually, they wouldn't have come to the table period. Inevitable failure? Too soon to tell. The league has done their homework on past league launch and the do and don't. We never know, nothing's for sure but inevitability is just as extreme as me saying that it's impossible that clubs won't fail.
It's not a matter of money to create teams, it's is there enough money in the spectating public to sustain the teams profitability. Since there doesn't seem to be any TV network money in the projected revenue stream (and who knows how streaming revenue would be earned), butts in seats will be the way to sustain the club. If you need 5-8K stadiums to be profitable, that's over 5% of a sub-100K population urban centre to attend week in and week out. Call me pessimistic, but I don't see that happening. MLS contracted two teams and relocated one in it's first 10 years of existence. That's a 14% failure rate, and in hindsight that was *good*. NASL 1.0 ballooned to 24 teams in 10 years (with many more clubs joining and folding) and rapidly imploded soon after. Growing as fast as CPL is suggesting is not wise. They would be better to fill out to 15 teams then wait a couple of years for teams to stabilize/fail/relocate before embarking on another round of expansion. I'd rather see MLS-level growth and succeed long-term than NASL 1.0-level growth and fail.
I'm sharing with you a file that another voyageurs prepared: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1km1vZtisUAofYsBVnyBhYoO3LFgUJyDeVxbPVnYloK4/edit#gid=0 If you look at the salaries that MLS Canadians are earning, CPL teams could pay the top guys a similar salary and throw in bonus and the understanding of starting most games. I think CPL will go young* as they won't need to pay the guys from pools 2 to 4 a lot of money. Pool 2 (up and coming from developmental leagues and D3 overseas leagues) Pool 3 (Homegrown, local talent) Pool 4 (College and University draft) *Older guys playing in D2 or D3 might come in but if he's looking for a last big paycheck, he will be disappointed. The teams will go young instead and let a promising guy play to develop instead. Whatever minimum salary would be it. The best paid players will be: Pool 1 (Canadians men's National team members & Canadians from D1 and some D2 leagues) Pool 5 Internationals This is also touching a very crucial point that a lot of people consistently overlooks...Canadians are very often underpaid in MLS for similar productivity versus Internationals or Americans. The case of Cyle Larin was right down criminal. I don't condone how he exited the league but hard to say that I don't understand his perspective nor would I have not done the same. Dom Dyer making millions while he got a raise to $192k was utter BS. Larin's far ahead of Dyer, he already was back then. That being said, we're debating if TFC should resign Osorio or not. I think he should leave because he deserves to be paid and even hardcore TFC fans knows he won't be paid his value. Going back to the chart above, those are all salaries that CPL are fully capable of paying these guys, on top of that, they'd be starting instead of being benched or sent to USL. CPL will easily raid USL of Canadians and expect bench warmers in MLS who aren't paid a high salary to look north as well.
I understand the pessimism. The lack of track record in non-MLS market justifies that. If you google the attendances in past U World Cups (men/women) and Women's World Cup, the attendance numbers was nothing short than outstanding. The money and population is there as is the demand. The challenge is whether or not the CPL and it's clubs can do the same and run an effective marketing campaign to make it happen. Hamilton and Winnipeg being owned by CFL clubs helps a ton. It will be the same for Ottawa. Halifax will sell out. Calgary and Edmonton will exceed expectations. Victoria and York are the question marks. If York 9 was a "North York" team instead, I'd have more confidence but York has all the metrics to pull it off. Falls on marketing to make it happen. As for TV, the CSA will use CSB and bundle all the national team games, women's games, Canadian Championship games and CPL games all together. We'll have to wait and see but streaming will definitely happen, might be DAZN. The league doesn't want to rely solely on tickets for it's revenue. That was the entire point of CSB who's the Canadian version of SUM. I don't disagree, it will be fun to see what happens
That is an interesting spreadsheet. Obviously there are some holes in it (Mr. A. Davies won't be signing with the CPL for $73 k ) but I like the idea behind it of looking at the possibilities. I'd refine that slightly to say that good Canadians are underpaid. Larin, Davies, Osorio, etc. I'm not sure I'd make the same case for, say, Morgan or Henry. The salaries on that chart are their recent MLS salaries (as far as I can tell). I have to wonder if the lure of starting would be enough to get them to the CPL. I suppose it would depend on the player. Jay Chapman, for example, might decide that after four seasons with TFC's top squad he's not going to break in as a true starter and opt for a much bigger role for the same(ish) money in the CPL. Liam Fraser, on the other hand, might be more likely to stay with TFC if he sees greater potential than with a new league. Or at least unless they offered him substantially more money to move. There's also the fact that a lot of the guys on that list are under contract. They can't just jump to another team. Still, it will be interesting to see what transfers and signings are arranged and who ends up with the new teams.
Maybe his kid! lol He was dating a U CanWNT member. I stand corrected. You're 100% right! With CPL, it just gives players more choice and force them to actually make decisions for their careers going forward. Those comfortable on an MLS bench will stay there and that's fine. Others will want the minutes and the bigger role at a similar salary in Canadian dollars. My favorite example is Jordan Hamilton who scores in MLS. He should be at the very least a sub in MLS but he's behind Altidore, Giovinco and Ricketts. He could stay at TFC hoping that Ricketts goes away and takes his spot. Starting however would only happen in a Canadian Championship or injuries to the main guy. Still a good living but his odds at developing his skills and being noticed by other leagues are low as they don't look at bench guys or USL that much. He goes to Hamilton Forge and starts every games. He's the local star of the team and he happens to not only score almost every games but helps Forge win a championship sending them into Champions League. He has the confidence of his coach so he can afford to be more creative on the pitch an further develop his skills which in time might cause him to improve and develop new abilities to his game. Let's say he scores 30 goals in all competitions including CCL...It's way more likely that an MLS clubs might want to acquire him for a bigger role or a Scottish side might target him. I would pick CPL in that situation for $100K. Even in Canadians, more likely that "Hamilton t-shirts" gets sold than at TFC and opportunities for local advertisement deals, potentially nationally. I will never claim that top stars & Internationals will pick CPL over MLS nor would I claim that Canadians starting would too at the right price. However, CPL is an attractive option. MLS guys would be "Pool 1" as playing in a D1 league and would most likely earn about the same but starting and getting exposre. USL guys would be Pool 2 and it's established that CPL can easily match and surpass whatever the are paid in USL. If you're Samuel Piette in Montreal, you stay in MLS unless CPL pays more but this guys should be in Europe anyways For guys under contract, some of those guys might asked to be released which would prompt the club to sell to CPL, some will not renew and negotiate with both sides to see who gives the better deal or CPL will call acquire players at the transfer window. Next transfer window will be fun
This is an interesting and often overlooked point: even if the salary is a lateral or even slightly degraded, if you're in the starting eleven you're going to have far more endorsement opportunities than as a bench warmer or reserve player (which I think is pretty safe to say would be zero in either case).
Osorio is in the same boat with deserving more either here or in Europe. (Although, to be honest, with a total team payroll of about $2 million don't think the CPL could afford either of those guys at what they will be worth in their next contracts.) Still, the existence of the CPL may have the effect of increasing salaries for Canadians in MLS. Maybe some of the $50 to $75 k guys become $100 k guys to avoid having the CPL poach them.
I don't think MLS Clubs value Canadians that high except the starters. Even then, they could easily find a European or South American with similar talent. Rightfully so, CPL isn't remotely on MLS radar except the 3 Canadian clubs. Specifically to those 3, this is where it get even more interesting. They've been on a signing spree at USL level this year. Seems that they are signing as many as they can so they don't lose their guys for nothing. I don't hate the move, it's very smart of them. They will keep the guys they feel have the most probability to start in MLS and sell the rest to CPL. However, they might get some of their evaluation wrong and sell very promising guys to CPL who might have not impressed in USL but put in a CPL environment might thrive. As for the salary cap, nothing stops the league to come up with other schemes to allow flexibility such as: Luxury tax for going over the cap Homegrown players signed to a CPL contract not counting on the cap To encourage Canadian content, half the salary count on the cap 6 Canadians starting out of 11 and half the team having to be Canadian is guaranteeing at least 48 Canadians starting every week. I'm sure owners will want the flexibility to acquire talented internationals to elevate the level of play and elevate the game of domestics. If you hit the cap and you have no space to pay a good Peruvian $200k, than what's the point as your domestics won't develop as quickly by not being exposed to different styles and higher talented players
Very important article about Canadian players throughout the world expectations for CPL The players speak: Canadian pros talk open up about what they want to see out of the CanPL https://the11.ca/the-players-speak-...about-what-they-want-to-see-out-of-the-canpl/ By the end of August Salary cap & player acquisition mechanisms will be decided Location of the team Mostly willing to go everywhere if the money is right although the preference is to go to a team in their home province Some would be willing to join the MLS teams to come back Halifax would need to pay extra for some players to join Travel Travel isn't an issue as long sufficient time is given prior to the game to prepare, recuperate Money Europe: Minimum would have to be $40K + Accommodations. Willing to compromise to go back home $35-45K is fair No less than 5k a month or for 8 months that would be $40K US-Based: No less than $75K and would need to file paperwork to not lose the green card Upwards the average of 40K and 60K Contracts: Unanimously: Contract MUST be guaranteed to leave USL and Europe Europe: Guaranteed Contracts + bonus for appearance and wins. Expects 2 years deal or 1+1 option No waivers or pre-season cuts once the contract is signed MLS-Based:Should be like MLS, thinks more experienced guys will have the ability to opt-in or opt-out. USL Based: A advantage CPL possess is Universal Healthcare. The player was livid to know that USL does not offer medical insurance for players which are very high Concerns: Training facilities, physios and doctors Level of play Salary cap being to low Direction of the league (older guys vs young guys & competitiveness + quality vs investment) Perception that a Canadian player is giving up on an international career by going home and playing in a new circuit. Fear of losing work status in the United States Fear that once the European door is closed, it can’t be opened again.
^ I'm surprised they'd be willing to move back to Canada from abroad for $40 k. I would have assumed that anyone a foreign team would call across an ocean to get would be paid much more than that. (Surely they could find locals with far fewer complications at that rate, right?) Also the idea of a salary cap under $1 million is new and not terribly encouraging since previously more like $2 million had been bandied about. Maybe it is more viable financially for the teams but it moves the average salary down to ~$50 k instead of ~$100 k. That would seriously change the level of play.
I'm not really. Below D1 in Europe, most aren't making that much money. You add to that the instability of not knowing what will happen to you if you're not renewed and the difficulty of finding a new club. It's way more brutal than people realize competition-wise. Just like MLS, Canadians are competing againt internationals from around the world who are way more superior to what MLS have. Coming home to a stable environment with similar pay and stability is why lots of them are willing to compromise. Must have been the same for Americans who were playing oversea when MLS started. I don't think that's what we'll end up seeing. That's just one owner and that's his prerogative to spend less but other owners like Hamilton and Winnipeg have been talking "MLS level squads" and being able to rival MLS teams in the Canadian Championship, you can't do that on a $1M salary cap and it would be presumptuous to assume that everyone will take a hometown discount to go to CPL. The scenario that makes sense to me is: ~$2M to ~$2.5M salary Luxury tax on teams spending over the cap going into a "revenue sharing pool" to help smaller teams (NHL has such a pool and CFL does have a luxury tax) Floor Cap of at least $1M Homegrown players don't count against the cap Owners would have the flexibility to spend what they want within reason.
Those aren't the teams I'm mostly worried about - even Moncton would be a safe choice in my view, considering they were selling out their stadium even for U19WWC matches in 2014. I'm more concerned about how CPL Div 2 would be supported and profitable for the 30-80K communities like Fredericton, Drummondville, North Bay, Brandon, Moose Jaw, Medicine Hat, or Prince George. Towns that want a development team will probably need some sort of subsidy to be sustainable, nevermind profitable. They would not have a $2 million cap, even a $500K cap would probably be too much for them.
I think that's why they are launching it after the 2026 World Cup. CPL is betting that this will be the peak of interest in Soccer in Canadian history. High enough that such markets would draw fans even if it's Division II. The date isn't an accident
The above mentioned towns would be better off in their own provincial leagues, where the travel costs would be affordable as these teams would only have to play within their province. I was talking with a soccer coach in my hometown on the south shore of Montreal (name withheld by request) and he says you need to have strong provincial leagues under a strong CPL. Just a thought.
I think it's doable. The CSA is copying a proven model that works in Canada, made in Canada...The CHL structure for D3.
That's the thing: If the CPL is talking about eventually bringing about Div 1,2, and 3 with pro/rel between them, I forsee Div 2 being the sticking point. Div 1 teams aren't going to want to play there because of lower revenue streams and Div 3 teams won't be able to play there due to not being able to afford the magnitude increase in the costs. I don't think Pro/Rel between Div 2 and 3 should be forced, because that is what will be the biggest jump for clubs. A 10-club Div 1 with Pro/Rel to a 14-18 team 2 conference Div 2 with Div 3 champs being able to challenge the last place Div 2 team for their spot if they so chose - that should probably be the endgame we can hope for.