Canadian Premier league

Discussion in 'Canada' started by mikehurst21, Feb 3, 2016.

  1. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    But having a business is a right as long as I follow all the requirements, no?

    A FIFA sanction isn't, it's a privilege as long as I follow all the requirements. It happens that Fury no longer follows regulations as the exemption clause no longer applies to them. How are we justifying that they should continue to receive FIFA sanction as a "right"?

    What about FIFA's rights then?

    Both matters aren't the same, we're talking apple and oranges.
     
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  2. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Fury meet or exceed those standards tho.. The main issue that the Fury seem to have is the risk and that the whole cap issue.

    No.. It's mostly hurt feelings and that doesn't particularly sway CAS and/or FIFA. CAS has already set the precedent that "untrustworthy" and "acting in bad faith" are not valid arguments for excluding clubs and/or having a rival league. They have, in the past, forced leagues to accept teams that the league denied promotion and forced rival leagues to merge.
     
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  3. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    We're not talking just "standards" here but abiding by league's rules which is something the Fury tried to exempt themselves from the get go. They didn't want to pay an entry fee and wanted to keep all their arrangements with Montreal for loans.

    The cap had nothing to do with it as the league was willing to let them keep their roster at first. Sure they acted in bad faith at implying that the CPL budget was too small for them and wouldn't be able to keep their roster under CPL cap but went on and cleared almost their entire locker room at the end of the season. Seriously, they have acted foolishly and entitled. I stress the word "entitlement"

    They want to join? Abide by all of the league's rule, roster rules, pay the extension fee (much higher now), get rid of those who acted against the league interest (Mainly De Guzman) or stay out.

    Nothing extreme here
     
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  4. nfitz

    nfitz Member

    Aug 20, 2007
    Toronto
    Surely the requirement to pay a very large entry fee, and to have the ownership of the team shared by the league, is rather unusual and extreme.

    Shouldn't CPL be paying the Fury a large fee, if they will partly control the team?

    Hopefully Concacaf and CSA don't act like idiots and try and stop Fury playing in the USL.
     
  5. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    There's nothing extreme about an expansion fee. The league isn't "one entity" like MLS but owners do buy shares into CSB. The league was willing to negotiate the last time but we can understand their low appetite for that now.

    There's no talk of CPL partly controlling the team, just changes in the ownership structure.

    They aren't being idiots, simply applying existing regulations. The endgame is for all Canadian clubs to play in Canada.
     
  6. nfitz

    nfitz Member

    Aug 20, 2007
    Toronto
    I can't ... if the league wants to be in Ottawa, they need to come to the table, and not be stubborn.

    Why push any ownership change.

    I don't think trying to eliminate the competition, and destroy a successful Canadian team is being anything other than idiotic.

    I don't see MLS exiting Canada for decades at best. Given how tenuous CPL's existence is currently, I'd think it would be in the best interest of Canadian soccer to have eggs in multiple baskets, and not put them in one!
     
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  7. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    That's the whole point, they want Ottawa but see a path where it can be done without OSEG.

    I think it's more about how it's being ran and certain individuals who had slander the league. Julian De Guzman cannot be involved with CPL.

    They aren't following the rules, worse they act dumb when they were told in advance in 2017 that this was coming. They turn around, act dumb and slander CPL who was willing to bend to get them in.

    The Fury doesn't have to end, they just need to stop acting entitled and comply with the rules.

    Tenuous? How?

    The 3 MLS clubs in CPL won't happen in the short term. 2029 is when the media deal expires, so we'll see where the league will be in a post 2026 World Cup era
     
  8. nfitz

    nfitz Member

    Aug 20, 2007
    Toronto
    I think you are wrong on this. If CPL can't deal with De Guzman, perhaps there needs to be change at CPL.

    Perhaps the CPL needs to start behaving like they aren't some kind of infalliable second-coming.

    Travel costs for this type of league, in a country of this size, are massive. How many national level soccer leagues in Canada have collapsed before? All of them. I hope they make it, but it's a long-shot at best.

    Where? If ...

    If they are still around after 2026 then that alone will be a huge victory. I doubt there'll be anywhere close to MLS-quality by then ... and at the same time, we've seen MLS itself improve in quality in the 12 years since it came to town.
     
  9. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Sports is also a business. No business in their right minds would partner with individuals that acted against it's interest. No leagues would put up with it and that's a fact.

    They have, hence the willingness to almost give the Fury whatever they wanted and negotiate while freezing out other investors interested in Ottawa. The league even said that they recognized Fury contribution to Canadian soccer and wanted to accommodate them as much as possible.

    You should save that description for OSEG.

    I'm sorry but I think you're misinformed. The league said that travel costs were accounted for and it wouldn't break the league.

    They have a sponsorship with Westjet who are their main carrier which helps them.

    CSL and CPL are like comparing apples and oranges. The strength of the ownership is light and day compared what the CSL used to be. Poor ownership sank that league, was not the travel or attendance, the league itself had lots of issues
     
  10. nfitz

    nfitz Member

    Aug 20, 2007
    Toronto
    The leagues comments aren't facts. There's not even any penalties for out-right lying. I'm not saying they are ... but we don't have facts.

    I'd forgotten about the original CSL. I was thinking of the CPSL and NASL ... not to mention the NSL and various iterations in it's death throes (is it dead yet?)

    Quite frankly, I think a fully professional NSL and second CSL type league, with teams throughout Southern Ontario and Quebec would have had a better chance. But here we are ...Go York Niners ... Go Hamilton Timbits ...
     
  11. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I recommend you take an interest in their business model, especially looking into CSB branch
     
  12. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
     
  13. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    Burnburu made somewhat of a similar claim a few months ago. I appreciate his enthusiasm, but no need to rush.
     
  14. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Quebec is key to the league reaching it's potential which would force them to go all in on French content. Quebec 2020 is a must in my opinion.

    Even better if you bring both from the getgo for a rivalry
     
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  15. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    I agree. Im just pointing out this isn't the first time he was in a rush to announce something that didn't come off.
     
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  16. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    Thoughts on the CPL so far:

    Cavalry is by far the class of the league. They are great. They also have the most depth in the league. If only they would fix their outrageous ticket prices to get more people in the stands.

    I like streaming games on One Soccer. Good deal.

    Halifax is going to lead the league in attendance. Ironic, considering they are the smallest market, along with Victoria. It's all about that downtown stadium that turns matches into an event.

    York 9 are a bit of a mess on and off the field.

    Forge started slow, but are starting to show their quality. Borges is a baller and the leading scorer in the CPL currently.

    Halifax and Pacific seem over matched.

    Edmonton, and to a lesser extent, Winnipeg, are still trying to find their identity, but are capable of more than what they've showed so far.

    I prefer to watch CPL games over MLS. I didn't think that would be the case at all before the season started.

    Really hopeful with all the rumours floating around, that we see an 8th team next year.
     
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  17. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Agreed with everything.

    The frustrating part is Cavalry not being able to go to CONCACAF League. I think they would have been fantastic.

    I'm not hating the lack of parity. It will force other teams to up their games.
     
  18. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    We had the same discussion at my house over the weekend. I understand how it happened but having Calgary would have allowed the league to put its best foot forward.

    I'm not sure that (after only five games) there really is a lack of parity. More like one team out front (Calgary), one team at the back (York), and a whole bunch almost interchangeably in the middle. That's a reasonable level of in-season parity for most fans I think.

    And most importantly, like MLS and unlike most European leagues, there isn't the expectation that Calgary will stay on top season after season even if they do run away with this year. True parity has more to do with long term turn over of winners and losers than with perfect parity inside of a single season.
     
  19. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Let's hope that Forge gets to CONCACAF as they seem close to play up to their potential. They are getting better as the season progress and there's real quality on that team.

    However we won't finish top 6 to qualify for the CCL. Cavalry could have done it I believe.

    Thanks CSA :rolleyes:

    Another reason why Cavalry are so dangerous...set pieces! If everything unfolds as planned, we will get a dream Canadian Championship bout between Calgary and Vancouver.

    Calgary can win during to the current state of Vancouver (your keeper can only do so much) and Calgary being deadly on set pieces.

    My quick ranking

    Top class = Cavalry, just quality football all around. I'm very doubtful they finish last in MLS. They are the most complete team, deep at every positions and well coached. CPL will produce the next crop of keepers and Carducci will be in the cards in the near future.

    Forge: Their midfield is finally getting coherent and creating offensive opportunities for forwards. They have good attackers in Thomas and Welshman but need a true striker. Tristan Borges is pure quality...expect him on the U23 team Olympic Qualifiers and future senior call ups. The team should content for the fall season.

    Predicting Forge vs Cavalry for the CPL Championship

    Valour: Losing Golubar was a massive blow but adding Marco Bustos is a huge plus up front with Hoyle and Petrasso who's versatility makes him a good midfielder, makes them deep at midfield along with Gutierrez, Sacramento, Carreiro,Muenkat, Galvis and Musse. threat up front with Hoyle.

    Montreal Impact gave up way too fast on Louis Beland-Goyette who's an absolute beast at DM, definitely a depth call up for the national team after Eustaquio, Piette and Tiebert. Defense is very good

    The team actually try to play an attractive style of football, they just need to simplify it a bit and not try to overdo it while the chemistry isn't quote on point. They are organized defensively. A sure threat for the Fall season.

    FC Edmonton: The team that came close to solve Cavalry. I do need to see them play a bit more but the experience of that squad really shows. They keep it simple and have for the most part good decision making. They are the most intimidating club to play against...very physical and physically imposing. Forget about crossing the ball through their towering defense. Didic & Soria stands out at defense. They are a capable team but I need to see more.

    HFX Wanderers:
    I don't get this team. They aren't very good at midfield and limited upfront. I question the coach choice of starting XI. Gutierrez at midfield with Lida creating offense with Garcia & Perea is a no brainer. Perea being hurt exposes how thin they are up front and midfield. They banked it all on defense who hasn't performed to the level advertised. Not sure playing the counterattack game will get them anywhere. A strange of strategy or players might be in order.

    Pacific FC: They banked it all on De Jong and without him, are massively exposed at the back. Legault is very good for his age but has lot to learn which is normal, same for Chung. Expect Chung and Legault on the U23 team this fall.

    Midfield is very talented but the lack of experience shows and they struggle to control the game and keep possession. This team is lacking veterans to play with them and compliment what they are lacking.

    Inexperienced back and mid leaves a very talented group of forwards stranded up front... Haber and Fisk should be among the best scorers but their midfield aren't helping them, simply not good enough. Nakajima-farran has to be the biggest disappointing signing so far. He's been embarrassingly poor for a veteran with his track record.

    Coaching is also a question mark...Maybe they just want to produce players and let the young ones play and clock lots of minutes...Good but they won't be contenders for the near furure

    York 9 : They are last because with the names on that team, there's no excuses for playing this poorly. At least Pacific, you can see why...very young, mostly inexperienced at pro, lack of veterans etc... York 9 are much better on paper.

    Nathan Ingham is arguably one of the best keepers in the league along with Carducci. If it wasn't for him, York would have been beat by much worse margins. Gasparatto is a stud as CB and surely caught the eyes of Herdman as we're weak at that position. Aparicio at midfield is pure quality. Gattas and Telfer up front are definately talented and can score.

    That team has no identity, no idea how to play as a coherent squad...they can't put it together...Brennan as head coach was a massive red flag for me. Brennan would be wise to let someone else coach that team. On paper, they should be around 4th overall.
     
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  20. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    Here we are and the end of May has passed.

    Alex shouldn't put timelines on things.
     
  21. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
  22. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria


    Here's a hopeful excerpt from a Soccer Today episode from a few weeks back regarding the situation between Ottawa Fury and the CanPl. Hopefully Paul Paul Beirne's willingness to reach out to JDG means that there are some within the league who are still open to an amicable resolution.
     
  23. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #3273 Robert Borden, Jun 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
     
  24. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    First National team call up for the CPL.
     
  25. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada

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