Canadian Premier league

Discussion in 'Canada' started by mikehurst21, Feb 3, 2016.

  1. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
  2. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    I'm pretty skeptical when when a brand new club reveals a plan to make money by developing and transferring players.

    #1) That was FC Edmonton's plan in the NASL. Ask them how that went.

    #2) MLS never really paid money for transfers from the USL and NASL. I doubt they will for CPL players, either. That sucks, as the big league next door.

    #3) MLS is only now starting to develop and sell players for profit after how long and how many tens of millions spent on development?

    I think the goal is laudable. However, if any of these clubs ever sell a player for anything, it should be seen as a "bonus" and not something to count on, business wise, for a very, very, very long time.

     
  3. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #3153 Yoshou, Apr 21, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
    Some of MLS’s sale issue were self inflicted tho. They received offers for a number of players, but in many cases, they turned it down and the players would leave on a free transfer a year ir two later. The offers were on the low side, but it seemed to give the impression that MLS wasn’t a selling league. That’s obviously changed, but it took several seasons of selling low value players before they started getting bigger offers..

    If CPL shows a willingness to sell, that’ll go a long way to actually getting offers.
     
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  4. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    CANPRO's point is valid, though. It is not a revenue stream to count on a part of an annual budget. It's a nice extra when it happens.
     
  5. RocketRobin

    RocketRobin Member

    Canada
    Feb 3, 2007
    Toronto
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    April 21, 2019 My game report on League 1 Ontario Oakville Blue Devils vs PLSQ A.S. Blainville exhibition game in Oakville. Includes interviews with coaches and players.

    Not the right forum except that it should interest York 9 FC fans as they will play Blainville in the first round of the Voyageurs Cup. The head coach of Blainville does answer questions on this year's Cup.

    Also Forge FC fans may like to hear OBD head coach Duncan Wilde heap praise on Forge recent signing Anthony Novak.

    http://www.rocketrobinsoccerintoronto.com/reports19/19l1o018.htm
     
  6. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
  7. Initial B

    Initial B Member

    Jan 29, 2014
    Club:
    Ottawa Fury
    To me this seemed inevitable when CBC copyrighted "Soccer Night in Canada" two years ago. I'm really looking forward to the book on the CPL when it comes out in a decade.
     
  8. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Signings from CONCACAF and CONMEBOL will increase as the league progresses.
    Other news, looks like the league has it's own anthem. I don't really have an opinion on it.
     
  9. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    News from Duane Rollins podcast

    1.A Montreal team could be ready as early as the Fall season but CPL is likely to have them enter the 2020 Spring Season instead

    2.CPL and OSEG (Ottawa Fury) are not talking to each other. OSEG seems to have burned their bridges with the league and if FIFA revokes their sanctioning in USL, OSEG seems more likely to shutdown the team then joining CPL. The league is adamant at putting a team in Ottawa so their faith is in CPL and FIFA`s hands.

    3.He vaguely talked expansions. Confirming multiple groups active and looking to get a club in the province of Quebec. Said that a club was all but done deal out west (Most likely Surrey). Fans are speculating on the rest but these are the most likely expansion for 2020:
    • Laval / Montreal (Bunbury group is ahead for a club in Laval)
    • Surrey / Fraser Valley (Multiple reports said it`s virtually done deal)
    • Saskatoon (Pending the Saskatoon Series success this summer)
    • Saint John or Moncton, New Brunswick (gave a clue about being close to the Moosehead Brewery who just partner with the league which is in Saint John, NB while enabling a regional rivalry with Halifax Wanderers)
    4.Jacques Tanguay, a Quebec City businessman, wants a soccer club in the province capital. He said that he was approached by a Montreal group asking him questions about the Quebec City market. He stressed the importance of a potential group to be willing to lose money for a decade as winning the market would take time and significant investment. The good news is that he`s willing to partner with other investors to bring a club in the city.
     
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  10. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    A great read about the birth of the Canadian Premier League

    Forge FC Originally Considered For MLS, USL, and NASL
    http://northerntribune.ca/forge-fc-major-league-soccer/

    -The city-owned stadium would be the home of the Tiger-Cats, but the stadium agreement came with a rather large caveat: Hamilton also required a soccer team as a tenant. It didn’t want the 23,000 seat stadium – which cost some $145,000,000 to build – hosting around 10 CFL games and sitting empty the rest of the time. So, the city put in a soccer clause.

    -They flew to NYC to have a discussion with MLS executives to see about Hamilton becoming an expansion team. They also met with both the USL and NASL.

    -An internal analysis completed by the Tiger-Cats executives showed the local fan base wouldn’t have much interest in watching teams from the Southern United States.

    -The economics behind running a Major League Soccer team simply didn’t add up, either: the organization would hemorrhage money, losing millions from the get-go.*

    *(Montreal Impact is on record stating they have yet to make a profit since joining MLS)

    -Instead, the bold idea of launching a professional soccer team with a non-existent league was born.

    -Mitchell financed a feasibility study for a professional domestic league in Canada, and it came back positive: the country was ready for an idea like the Canadian Premier League.
     
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  11. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
  12. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    Spring 2020 would make way more sense if Montreal is getting a team. Curious where they would play.

    The CPL definitely needs an Ottawa team. I'm sad that it's looking less and less like the Fury. If OSEG pulls the plug and someone else starts from scratch there are still stadium issues with OSEG running the Redblacks. Hopefully they can still reconcile and keep what history the Fury have built.

    Some of these, like Moncton (150k) and Saint John (130k), seem way too small for long term viability. I suppose it doesn't hurt the league to be able to say they have many cities interested, however, even if some of them won't seriously be in the running.

    Quebec is another city the CPL needs a team in. I hope this one works out.
     
  13. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    If the Bunbury group wins, which seems likely, this is the rumored location:
    Complexe Multi-Sports De Laval
    (lots of space for a modular stadium)
    [​IMG]

    From my understanding from the stadium deal with the city of Ottawa, they have exclusivity on soccer operations at TD Place. If they fold the team, they wouldn't be able to block another soccer team wanting to fill the dates at the stadium.

    The league could easily work around the Redblacks schedule. Also, they don't have the luxury to refuse a tenant as not only are they losing money as of now with the Fury, but they aren't able to fulfill their financial obligations to the city of Ottawa. There's no way the city would let OSEG do that and it isn't in their best interest to be bitter.

    Rivalries in Atlantic Canada is key for Moncton to succeed which is at the core of the league's strategy. The addition of Quebec City and St.John's would go a long way to make that happen. Adding Moncton on their own would be risky but a successful Halifax just makes it more viable for both New Brunswick and Newfoundland.

    Moncton has a stadium ready to go, I believe they could draw 6k like Halifax will be doing. They have a longstanding history in soccer (very strong university program with lots of talents emerging) and attracting fans.

    It's a matter of time. Just like above where we can see some strategic expansion process going on, they seem to be banking that a successful CPL Montreal team, existing MLS Montreal team that are part of the Canadian Championship will help stimulate the demand in Quebec City.

    The Montreal-Quebec rivalry is the most intense I've witnessed (sorry Toronto & Boston). Just looking at the "Rouge et Or" vs. "Carabins" (University football), past Canadiens vs Nordiques, both fans and medias are all over it. It's an event that transcends sports. (Real hate between both cities). Put a CPL derby there and look out... Those are guaranteed sellouts, which could leave some Montreal Impact looking on the outside somewhat jealous. They could be supporting the CPL Montreal teams as well or some could jump ship in the region.
     
  14. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    Modular looks good in Halifax. Building it would be reason enough to wait for 2020.

    It could work. There just seems to be so much more that could be accomplished with cross promotion between the teams and sharing the best stadium dates rather than infighting etc. Hence my (wishful?) thinking the Fury would be the better option if it can work.

    The problem with rivalries is that they are one game per year. They are nice but they don't let you average 6000 fans per game, especially when your stadium is only marginally larger than that to begin with.

    We can disagree but I just don't see this on a regular basis. Remember, while it is great what Halifax is doing, by selling out they are only hitting the minimum the league says it needs to be viable. Proportionately, Moncton drawing ~6000 would be like Halifax drawing ~18 000.
     
  15. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is Halifax going to be building a permanent stadium? From what I was reading the other day, they are literally removing and rebuilding their current stadium every year.. That seems like an unnecessary expense...
     
  16. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    I seem to recall that the city council gave them something like a three year "lease" to see if a stadium will work in that location with parking, crowds, etc. (I could be mis-remembering, though.) Perhaps if they prove successful over that time they can look at something permanent?
     
  17. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Yes, it's a 3 years lease. There was lots of NIMBYism going on when it was time to approve the stadium. The club wanted a fully modular stadium but locals were pushing back on that citing noise and other stuff like that.

    The mayor, massive CPL fan, to his credit found a compromise. 3 years lease with some conditions and if they are respected and attendance is there, they will consider a more permanent structure.

    Good way to desensitize the locals and get them use to it.
     
  18. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #3168 Robert Borden, Apr 24, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
    A debrief from today's Duane Rollins Patreon podcast on CPL expansion.
    *My comments in red


    -Laval/Montreal: Bunbury's group are the top choice but there are other groups. 2020 start most likely
    Consistent with what was reported. They have land and a modular stadium can be built very fast. The location is perfect, if marketed properly, could be aimed at near 1 Million people with subway and commuter train access...and ridiculously over developed highway network connecting all nearby suburbs. Northern Montrealers could easily go to that team as well.

    -New Brunswick rumours out there. Not Moncton though. There isn’t ownership interest there. Saint John could be it with Moosehead partnership announced.
    Biggest corporate center in the province (Irving Oil Company, McCains). Fredericton is a government city. Important for another eastern team with Halifax being so isolated. Maybe 2021
    A bit surprised by Saint John being preferred to Moncton who has the biggest population (not by that much, granted) and closer to Halifax by land. I'm guessing for a CPL Tier 1 team, Saint John having the strongest corporation backing would also be a preferred option for the league. Someone mentioned that a stadium did exist and would need renovation to bring it to CPL standards.

    I would think that Moncton would eventually get a Division II club.


    -no real word on Quebec City yet but would make sense if there are two groups interested in Montreal to try and convince one to go there for the natural rivalry. Talked up Laval in general
    There was the Jacques Tanguay article quoting him wanting a club in Quebec City, so there was word. I wouldn't be surprised that the losing bids in Montreal might partner with Tanguay (solid businessman and heavily involved in sports in the Capitale Region). His interest should make the market more attractive to investors.

    -Ontario team close is out of left field. Pickering or Durham (Oshawa) region. Might be closer to 2021 than 2020. Possible connected to other real estate deals/renovation to stadium and further development of other projects. Big money name attached (billionaire) Around Church/Bailey area, near power plant/lake, possibly as part of Woodbine development.
    The league made public that a Durham Region was in the work but I did not expect them to be this close from being ready. The billionaire investor certainly helps speed thing up and the area he's referring to is due to a massive entertainment redevelopment project tied to a Casino in Pickering. Having a stadium there with a club would make sense.

    Pickering for those not used to GTA Geographics
    -Eastern suburb bordering Toronto (Scarborough) in the east. The train station and Highway 401 would intercept much of the eastern population.

    Durham Region Population: ~650k as of 2016
    [​IMG]
    Looks like Toronto FC will be completely surrounded once Mississauga and possibly Halton (Oakville) joins...

    Casino Project
    [​IMG]


    -rumblings of western GTA (Halton/Oakville) interest but nothing concrete yet. Maybe 2021. Brought up the Caldwell hiring
    Oakville in Halton Region came up recently with the hiring of Steven Caldwell, ex-TFC player and current TSN soccer analyst and newly president of League 1 Ontario club, Oakville Blue Devils. There's seems to be intent to prepare the club for an upgrade into CPL. There's a strong corporate presence in Halton and lots of money there. Not hard to imagine that losing Mississauga and Durham bids would turn their attention to Halton Region

    Halton Population: ~550k as of 2016


    -Kitchener-Waterloo still in the mix. Barry McLean is figurehead/involved heavily but stadium issue holding back. 2021 or 2022 play
    Barry Mclean was involded with the PDL team K-W United until it folded when Ontario Soccer Association forced the Ontario teams out of PDL into League 1 Ontario (yes a precedent do exist). The league was said to push hard on that area but the recurring theme is the stadium, more specifically, "where to put it". It's an inevitable addition to the league, that area (Tri-City of Kitchener, Waterloo & Cambridge) are Canada's "Silicon Valley"

    Region of Waterloo population : ~ 600K
    Between London and Hamilton
    [​IMG]


    -London and Windsor in play but long term and not hearing much
    The league had excluded them from "ownership" to whom they were having talks so it's new to me that these are getting in there but they are no brainers to join. I'd prioritize London over Windsor. One of them or both might end up in Division II at this rate

    -Saskatchewan (most likely Saskatoon) further along. Figures 2020 likely
    *Yes, Joe Belan's group is a solid group for the league, one of the better ones actually. Pending the Saskatchewan Series, expect them in 2020.

    Hoping that this will peak the interest of the current ownership of the CFL Roughriders in Regina to seek a club for their stadium
    [​IMG]


    -his guess would be 2020-Durham/Pickering, Saskatoon, Montreal/Laval
    He hasn't mentioned Surrey but other sources said Fraser Valley was pretty much a lock.

    -thinks 2 teams a year for 3-4 years until hit 16
    I could see 3 teams for 2020 bringing the league at 10 teams. I could see the remaining 6 spots being competed for by the remaining ownership and be filled by 2026 as the league projected to be.

    The remaining bids could be invited to resubmit a bid for Division II post 2026 World Cup as the backbone of that division. That would most likely seal Toronto FC II fate as a sanction in USL One wouldn't make much sense while providing the opportunity for Montreal and Vancouver to put their reserve teams there (without being allowed to promote)
     
  19. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    To be fair, it's also a good way for the city to get a feel for whether the team is going to make it before they permanently fill an important piece of down town real estate with a stadium. I think the Wanderers will do fine but city councils are rightfully cautious about new sports teams, especially in new sports leagues.
     
  20. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
  21. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    Robert Borden repped this.
  22. waltlantz

    waltlantz Member

    Jul 6, 2010
    What podcast was this?
     
  23. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
  24. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    With opening weekend upon us, I checked through the ticket sales for each team's home opener.

    Victoria: sold out (actually 6 tickets left :) )

    Calgary: at least 1000 tickets left not counting GA sections

    Edmonton: about 300 tickets left not counting GA sections

    Winnipeg: about 250 tickets left (actually there are a lot more but I think they opened up some extra sections so I'm not counting those nor the seats that appear to be reserved for away fans)

    Hamilton: sold out (free tickets but also a full stadium game)

    Halifax: sold out

    York: no information
     
  25. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002

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