Which is why we were so fantastic in France '98. Guys, you're drowning in counterfactuals, and grabbing anchors. Not a pretty sight.
It was sarcasm. What makes you think CONMEBOL wants us? What makes you think CONCACAF would let us go? What in HELL makes you think FIFA would approve? This ain't Israel playing in Europe so that their path to the Cup is greased by a series of forfeits by all their neighbors. This isn't Australia leaving a confederation where freakin' New Zealand is 10 times better than the next best team. Might as well suggest what would have happened if Spartacus had a Piper Cub, or Bill Archer had an open mind.
As I stated above, one could just as easily say that turning down CA in 1997 directly impacted on '98, or that getting our ass handed to us in CA '93 set us up to learn from it in '94. All of that supposed causality is simplistic, but if we're going to be simplistic and make judgments based on ludicrously small samples we may as well do so consistently. I'm not saying that playing in the last CA would have miracluously caused our guys to play better against Czech. I'm saying that for the medium-term (5-10 years) development of the USMNT it's the best option.
Yes, the USA needs to play in Copa America. Just halt the MLS season, shouldn't be too hard, they say they want it stopped for the next world cup. How anyone is having time to pay attention to MLS right now, I have no idea.
i have a feeling that whoever is the next USA coach will be pretty insistent that we play, demanding if you will. the only reason we haven't played it is b/c we had a guy that was sympathetic toward the MLS goal. BA/USSF/MLS came to the joint decision that it was best to keep the MLS guys with their teams, and not disturb the season. but if we get a Euro dude, he may not look the same way at a Rapids-Crew wednesday night affair in june that Arena did. most Europeans (if i could gauge the collective opinion ) feel that one of the main problems with the US team is that they never play elite, high stakes competition outside the WC and 2 WCQers. if our next coach is a european, say a Leo Beenhakker for example, i can't imagine us getting a CA invite and that coach thinking turning it down is a good idea.
I have no such feeling, but it is a fun topic for speculation and discussion. If your particular dream coach happened to become available but only under this stipulation, would that tip any of the anti-CA crowd to be pro-CA? Still, i bring that up mostly to have something to talk about. Ya know, with this being such a thin time for international soccer and all.
actually, i'll amend that statement: if the next US coach is an MLS lackey, like Bob Bradley (yeah right, like he has a shot) or Frank Yallop, then we probably won't be playing in Copa America. but if it's someone from the Euro old guard, i can't imagine them NOT wanting to play if invited. If your particular dream coach happened to become available but only under this stipulation, would that tip any of the anti-CA crowd to be pro-CA? if we had Martin O'Neill on board and YOU, as a fan, didn't want him because he had plans to play the US in the Copa America ... said fan would be a colossal douchebag. that's how i feel about it.
The NT summer schedule should look like this: 2006 World Cup 2007 Gold Cup (winner qualifies for Confed Cup, top 2 qualify for Copa America) 2008 Copa America 2009 Final Round of WC Qualifiers, Confederations Cup 2010 World Cup repeat ... MLS should adjust their schedule to accomodate these summer tournaments. They should take a break every single summer. Soccer fans will become used to this. And there will be national team games to watch during this time. How awesome of a soccer calendar would that be? Working together with the NT can only be good for MLS. They don't even have to sacrifice that much. Just one summer month. - Paul
Yes it bridges the gap perfectly. And i think it's this gap that is killing us. skipping it is not helping - that's for sure. Club teams will cut their guys loose to play in the Copa America. Trust me, they have their own big Euro tourneys too, they will more than understand. We need to find a way to go. Heck we need to win that thing before we can think about winning the WC. It's the first step. I don't understand why so many oppose? I think they just don't understand the magnitude of it. Mexico gets it. we don't. They send their best, every time. The World Cup has been won by South America many many times..
Playing in the Copa America would give the managr more chances to look at players he doesn't get to see much of. Like I don't know, an actual left-back, or another central midfielder who is younger than 28.
exactly. And u get a chance to look at them agaist WC quality players. These are not "friendly matches" there is a big difference. You play to win with the best u can send, But also it's a time to test guys and see how the players perform on a big stage and in a tough hard played game < we need that the most right now. + builds chemistry with the team.
Between now and 2010, the US manager has to look at Feilhaber, Carroll, Clark, Bradley, Mastroeni, Simms(a stretch), and some others for central midfield, a replacement for McBride at striker, a backup for EJ, a real leftback(finally) not to mention replacements for Pope and Berhalter. Alot more turnover between '06 and '10. Arena/manager of the future needs more matches than normal to evaluate. Camp isn't good enough.
He will if all or almost all of the Euros beg off. Which I think is highly likely. (And with all due respect to guys like Jemal Johnson and Danny Karbassiyoon, they don't count.)
The problem is we'd usually be losing the July 4 games, which are biggies. At least in the short term. Once most everyone's in a properly sized stadium, this is less of a concern. IIRC, August is the worst attendance month. Unfortunately, all of these competitions come at the beginning of summer, not the end.
You're just guessing. Plus, you're only thinking of half (or even less than half) of the problem. I think it'll be more common that the players themselves will say, thanks but no thanks.
European teams are always happy when losing players to the African Cup of Nations. Pack them off with a sandwich and a good luck wave.
Please don't make me list all the players that play professional soccer and or on club teams abroad. My guess is just about all the players from the Copa America do. IF ADRIANO can take time off of the Italian League to play for Brazil, our players have no excuses. If the players themselves say, "thanks but no thanks." Then they don't need to be on our national team in the first place. and we are talking about sending anyone/ just front a team.. Why are we turning this down, it make no since.
I've been saying this for awhile, we really need to look at one whos in the battles, not just at a camp. I'm sure guys like Pearce would be happy to show up for Copa America.
i'm just trying to follow the chronology of this argument. b/c at first it was "No CA -- it interferes with the MLS season." as an addendum to that: "We don't have enough Euro-based nats to make it work." now people are saying that that MLS is less of a concern, it's that the Euros "don't want to play." this is just bizarre. i can understand why a guy like Reyna never wanted to go. he's always treated his body like he's 65. but i can think of no rational reason why people like Feilhaber, Spector, EJ, Adu, Howard, Convey, Demerit, Gibbs, and even Gooch would say "no." playing in the Copa will not jeopardize any of their standings with their club teams. if anything, it gives them precious seasoning in a very well respected tournament. just make this a 25 & under tournament (w/ a couple exceptions), just like every other team does. we're not asking Reyna, Lewis and BMB to haul their asses down there. we're bringing a young team that NEEDS international experience.
I am being sarcastic. I am saying that is unbelievably dumb to skip the Copa America just to keep 10-12 U.S. players in the league. If the league playes during the World Cup, it can play during Copa America, too. Note for Concacaf qualifying- if the U.S. gets to play in La Paz, Quito, and Aerequipa, it will make the Azteca look a bit easier.
Actually I'd love for you to do that. I haven't followed it at all the last few CAs, but back when I argued this position with more passion, it was my recollection that many of the South American countries did NOT have most of their European-based players, at least not the stars. That said, Brasil or Argentina even playing home-based players is a formidable opponent if the younger guys are taking the games seriously, which IIRC they do because they want to win contracts in Europe. Here, I'll start you out: Here's every goal scorer in CA 2004 per Wikipedia. Can't find the lineups. That Adriano bloke who was playing for Parma at the time seems like a pretty useful player. I'll stick this at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:PhilipR/CA2004 in case anyone cares to keep going. I don't have a huge problem with sending mostly an MLS-based side, and I'm not under some grand illusion that every Euro-based member of the US "A" side is going to happily come sacheting back home to play in CA. So we treat it with the seriousness that Brasil or Argentina treats it -- but we still take it somewhat seriously. To not take it seriously at all when given this golden opportunity is, IMO, criminal. Regarding a pie-in-the-sky dream of moving to CONMEBOL -- notwithstanding the precedent that Australia has set, I don't forsee that invitation coming any time soon. Mexico would be their clear first choice, especially since MEXICO DOESN'T TREAT THEIR DAMN PRESTIGE TOURNAMENT LIKE AN ANNOYANCE! Much more likely would be an eventual merger of the two confeds, but I doubt there's really impetus for that either. Final thought that just occurred to me: Wouldn't a US presence in Copa America mean that MLS clubs might get invited to the Taça/Copa Libertadores? (In fairness, it doesn't seem that Costa Rica gets Libertadores places -- but MLS just might, IF WE STARTED TREATING CONMEBOL LIKE A VALUABLE ALLY.) Start bringing São Paulo and Boca Juniors to competitive matches in the US and see what that does to MLS' credibility among Latin American immigrant populations....