Can We Keep SoB tickets off Stub Hub?

Seriously dude? WTF?

 

I was just tossing around an idea. I know it was not perfect and not even sure I will it just thought that I would consider some sort of idea.

I figured if we had people inform the SOB when they were giving the tickets away it would make the scalpers less likely to do so and easier to track. It would also give us an reason to check on seats that are potentially problems each week. For those we could check and then use that as a warning to those that sell every game and then eventually get rid of the problems. I also was not 100% in favor just was thinking of an idea to help fix the problem. This is not an easy fix and I do not envy Chris with having to come up with a solution.

 

Seems to be two things in play here:

- stopping people from scalping TRE tickets
- stopping casual meatheads from coming into TRE and behaving badly

For me, if someone can get $149 for their tickets, that's up to them. As long as whoever takes the tickets gets into it, it's a question of supply and demand. If we change the TRE rules for next season, then maybe it could stand up, but for this season, I don't think anything can be done.

The second point, bottle throwing casual drunks won't be paying $149 so they'll be out of TRE and maybe in a nice section with kids and soccer moms when they lose it. Or is the assumption that a-hole + TRE = bottles and punches thrown but a-hole + non-TRE = "Phil-a-del-phia!"?

 

The problem is there are multiple times where those people didn't read or unknowingly thought it would be regular seats. Getting it back into the Union marketplace where that can be very clearly informed to them that this is a supporters section and all of the items that entails is part of what getting them off of Stubhub is about.

 

Bottle throwing thugs shouldn't be anywhere in the stadium, and i'd hope the person is now banned from PPL park for life.

 

I agree but the issue is IF someone buys those seats and either doesn't know what they're getting into or just want to cause an issue, it reflects on SoB and ONLY SoB. People don't care that the fight had someone in it that wasn't a member and got the ticket off StubHub (still unverified). They see a fight in the River End and it's the SoB's that can't control themselves.

Either way, we will find a way to deal with it past the new ticket resale policy for sure. We must.

 

I think that the River End provides a certain level of "cover" for the bad seeds. If any of us did what we do during a game outside the River End we would be asked to sit down and not disturb the sheeple around us. Put a bad seed out in the regular seats and they would get spotted and dealt with well before it came to blows ... in my opinion.

 

Don't want to start a new thread, so guess I'll stick this here....
In light of recent events I've added the following terms & conditions for any ticket I resell through Paypal or sell to someone I don't know, you all might consider something similar:
----------

This is a Supporters Section ticket. If you do not know what that entails then DO NOT purchase this ticket.

You must be a member of Sons of Ben to purchase this ticket.

You must adhere to the Sons of Ben Code of Conduct at all times while inside PPL Park.

If I, David J Wrenn, witness the purchaser of this ticket violate the Sons of Ben Code of Conduct then security will be notified and the purchaser will be removed from the River End and possibly ejected from PPL Park.

If the purchaser of this ticket stands in the River End anywhere except Section 137 - Row K - Seat 21 then I, David J. Wrenn, am not personally responsible as season ticket owner of Section 137 - Row K - Seat 21 if you violate the Sons of Ben Code of Conduct.

Have fun and don't be a jerk!

Ad Finem Fidelis

-------------

Any of you lawyer types think I need to add anything else?

 

I would think if that person buying your ticket stands anywhere in the River End you are responsible. He could say I was standing in front of seat 22 not 21. The fact that you are the conduit for which the person gets the ticket, you are responsible no matter where they stand in the river end.

 

How can I be responsible for the behavior of someone who buys my ticket in good faith, but then decides to sit somewhere else in the River End with the rest of their friends? (which is what happens 99% of the time)

Am I supposed to track them down and force them to move next to me so I can babysit?

If the purchaser met all the qualifications for buying my ticket, but they decide to go knucklehead in another part of TRE, then it is completely out my control to enforce the SoB code of conduct, so it shouldn't affect my season ticket status. That language is there just for my own protection.

 

I highly doubt StubHub would cooperate with that. They're in the business to make money. They don't care who resells what or for how much.

 

Using the Union Ticket marketplace would absolve your liability of the behavior. But if they can't guarantee that you sold it, your stuck "holding the bag" of responsibility.

 

the problem is they are your season tickets. They are in your name. If someone who bought them from you does stupid shit, you will ultimately be responsible. Just because you wrote something that says you aren't responsible doesn't mean the union or SoB's abide by it. You are entering into a contract with the person buying your tickets, not the Union or SoB's. I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just pointing out reality.

 

I thought reselling on BS is the preferred method of SoB leadership?

I honestly don't know, can you sell RE tix through the market place? Do they require the SoB code when you buy from there?

When I do it through paypal I create an invoice that has the terms clearly listed & then transfer the ticket through my account manager on the U's website, so there's definitely a paper trail to back me up if things go awry.

 

Don't think at all you're being a dick. We just have a difference of opinion on where I start/stop being liable for the behavior of someone using my ticket. I'm of the opinion that it is just in the immediate area of my seats. I make it clear that they have to abide by the code of conduct & that I will enforce the code of conduct. I believe that I can't be held responsible for actions of someone else when they're not in my seats. That's completely on them to deal with the results of their own actions. I mean, when exactly am I supposed to start being liable? In the parking lot? Once they enter PPL? The libertarian in me says never, everyone is responsible for their own actions, but I know I have to give a little...

 

The problem is in common circles it's almost treated as a sublease of your season ticket. Since the Union's ticket agreement is through you, you're stuck with the outcome.

 

Following this logic, if you couldn't make a game and sold your whole block of tickets on StubHub, you wouldn't have any responsibility at all. I just want to make clear that this is not the case.

The Elders' position on this has always been that unless you sell your tickets to another SoB, you are responsible for the behavior of the person who uses those tickets. Your choices are:

1) Sell them to an SoB,

2) Sell them to someone you know and trust, or

3) Sell them to a stranger, warn them what they're getting into and take your chances.

Where the person is physically located in the stadium is not relevant to the discussion, and if the person you brought into the River End wanders off they don't stop being your responsibility.

 

Deleted - What Chapka said.

 

Right, that's the 2nd item in my terms, you have to an SoB. Who said anything about selling on stubhub? I would never do that... numbers 1 & 2 in your post are the only ways to get a ticket from me...

When you transfer a ticket from the STH card to paper through the Union's website the STH's name is no longer attached to it and the terms & conditions are as follows:

*Ticket holder acknowledges all risks incidental to any game or event for which this ticket is issued, whether occurring before, during, or after the game or event,and hereby agrees to assume same. Management reserves the right to refuse admission by refunding the price appearing hereon, and/or to expel from the premises any person whose presence or conduct is deemed by it to be objectionable.
Expulsion cancels this ticket, and the holder thereupon forfeits all claims,
including any claim to a refund of the ticket price. Tickets deemed lost or stolen will not be honored. Admission is subject to compliance with applicable laws, by-laws, regulations and facility rules ("Stadium Guidelines"). Failure to comply with Stadium Guidelines may result in non-admission or expulsion. A list of prohibited items is posted at all points of entry to the facility. Holder consents to a reasonable examination of his/her person and effects to ensure compliance with Stadium Guidelines. This ticket may not be resold or offered for resale in a manner or price in violation of Federal, State or local law or regulation, and any failure to comply shall be grounds for seizure and cancellation.


I reread the stadium guidelines & nowhere does it mention that a ticket selling agent or any 3rd party can be held liable for the actions of an individual holding that ticket.

Hypothetically speaking I have legal ground to stand on even if the person is standing next to me and they decide to go turbo-douche.

Look, I totally agree that we need to get RE tickets off of stubhub and people that bought ST's in the RE just to turn a profit should be expelled.

I just have a huge problem with someone being liable for the actions of another. Especially when they take the necessary safe guards and a situation happens that is totally out of their control..... and double especially when the stadium guidelines make no mention of a policy as such.

Chris, you're a lawyer, am I being way off with my interpretation of the legalese?

 

The current discussion aside I wanted to post this information to re-highlight the fact that we DO have an issue with with brokers selling tickets int he RE:

The people that began the fight that occurred last Friday were sitting in the seats of a SoB member who sold his 5 seasons tickets on a broker service all season. That person has now had his seats revoked by the team and will have his membership in SoB pulled. This is not a one off case of someone giving tickets to their friend and having something happen. This was someone actively engaged in the resale of RE seats.

 

Good news. I hope in the future more of these situations are found and handled. Good on the Union FO for this one and thanks for the update el presidente.

 

I just don't think any of what you posted is relevant to what we're talking about. The situation is really pretty straightforward and doesn't require any legalese.

It sounds like you're being fairly responsible with your tickets, selling them to other SoBs or to people you know. That's what we want you to do.

But I want to be clear--no, there is no magic disclaimer someone can add to a listing that gets rid of their ultimate responsibility for the person sitting in their seats. That's not the way disclaimers operate. Any conditions you put on the sale of your ticket may affect your obligations to the buyer, but they don't affect your obligations to the Sons of Ben. Anything printed on your tickets may affect your responsibility to the team, but it doesn't affect your obligations to the Sons of Ben.

 

$80 each!? I wonder what I could get for my seats? Not that I'd ever sell them.

 

Too bad you can't comment on Stubhub tickets letting everyone know that they're still for sale at a much cheaper price.