Camp Cupcake: Jan 2019 Edition

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by keller4president, Oct 12, 2018.

  1. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Pulisic has been less effective for the USMNT and Dortmund when deployed as a wide MF in a flat 4 midfield. A 4-4-2 with a flat four midfield is how Arena lined up against CR at home and I think against Honduras away. Stoger did it too and I think Favre did it once early in the year.

    That GB attacked in a 3-4-3 (3-2-2-3) and 4-3-3 hopefully means he doesn't see that Arena 4-4-2 as effective for Pulisic and that Pulisic's effectiveness is important.

    I think Pulisic could be utlitized well in the position Baird played, Ebobisse/Arriola played, or Djorde played. If I had to guess, I think GB tries him in the Djorde role first, where he is a 10 on offense and a forward on defense. Sort of how Sarachan used him against England and Italy.

    I would expect, with time and practice, Pulisic will move in between all these positions in a game.
     
  2. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The poster asked When did Trapp get embarrassed? and I posted a clip of when he got embarrassed.

    Now if seeing that clip does not make you cringe then I am sure that posting others won't "prove" much to you so keep whatever delusions about Trapp's defensive effectiveness you may have.
     
  3. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    @ Costa Rica, @ Panama, @ Mexico, Costa Rica, @ Honduras.

    The Panama and Honduras games are at least an argument against that theory. I'd also suggest they are an argument against the idea of playing defensively. Why are we struggling to tie teams on the road that we beat 6 and 4 nil at home? Why is Pulisic destroying these teams when playing in a free role at home and having little impact out wide on the road?

    There are all touch videos of CP dominating these two teams in a free role and he only shows up in these highlights when he drifts centrally or gets into the box.



     
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  4. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Those are clearly more difficult games compared to the ones he scored in IMO.

    We clearly disagree wrt defensive orientation but I think playing away on crappy fields means we'd be dumb to try to play attractive/attacking. As always, I point to TnT as example 1a as to why we shouldn't do that.
     
  5. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Thanks for reminding me.

    Trapp made a 20 yo players debut all touches video. Check out the turnover at 0:25 and the yellow card at 0:36. These are mistakes against an MLS teram resting many of its starters. There is no way he is international quality.

    @tomásbernal , if you want more examples, I'd start with the Brazil game. I posted a twitter thread in the WTF90 thread, as any other mistakes i come across.

     
  6. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    They should only be marginally more difficult. The fields werent that bad. We played scared and lost an easy two points at Panama.

    The T&T game isnt a good argument at all. We lost at T&T due player selection and attitude. The team didnt show up to play.

    The other games show the exact opposite of what you suggest. Both games have a team going up a goal and dropping off. We were stupid doing it at Panama and Honduras was even dumber taking their foot off the gas. Honduras' mistake cost them a trip to the WC.
     
  7. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Player selection was not the reason we lost at all. The team we fielded was ABSOLUTELY more than good enough to get a tie from an already eliminated TNT who was fielding a C team.

    We didn't take them seriously, tried to show how good our domestic talent was by playing an attacking possession game on a crap field. They counter-attacked us, scored early and we lost and didn't make the World Cup.
     
  8. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Pleasanton, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Player selection mattered because we rolled out the same XI that played a couple of days ago.

    Everyone understands that team had enough talent to beat a Trinidad C team. But the tactics were poor (massive space between the lines for T&T to exploit, and slow defenders), and the team as a whole was obviously tired and lethargic playing in a Trinidadian swamp.
     
  9. yurch10

    yurch10 Member

    Feb 13, 2004
    Love how Germany axes Boateng, Muller, and Hummels because they were part of a team that underperformed in a WC (despite winning it 4 years before).

    We must keep MB in the team because he has experience (missing the WC) and hit a long diagonal six years ago.

    I said it after Trinidad - in what other relatively serious soccer nation would an old-ish captain presiding over such failure not step down immediately and/or retire from int'l football? Never did I think (jk, I knew) that he would still be discussed for a role/starting spot 18 months later...
     
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  10. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Pleasanton, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not surprised that the US soccer establishment wants to milk Michael Bradley as much as possible.

    I'm surprised that there are posters on here that are in lockstep with that idea.
     
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  11. yurch10

    yurch10 Member

    Feb 13, 2004
    Why are you not surprised? I don't really understand myself. It didn't seem like LD/Demps were treated like this, but maybe I'm mistaken? I guess Howard was to an extent (he shouldn't have been an auto-starter after WC14), but it seemed to be pretty clear he wouldn't play after Couvo.
     
  12. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Pleasanton, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Michael Bradley was a core part of the USMNT for the entire 2018 cycle. He is a coach's son, whose father is a part of the USMNT establishment. He is an intelligent, mostly soft-spoken ambassador for MLS. If he's acknowledged as "past it", then his generation of players, almost all of whom play in MLS, is finally swept under the rug.

    Hence why guys like Doyle keep crapping out articles suggesting that he still has a role, and why MLS advertised him being "at the top of the Golden Boot race"...
     
  13. yurch10

    yurch10 Member

    Feb 13, 2004
    Ok, but isn't his entire co-generation (howard, LD, Demps, Beaz, even Zusi types) all fairly commonly recognized to be "past it"? So everyone basically except MB have already been swept out.

    I mean I disagreed (and was proven correct, of course) throughout the last Hex that he should be an automatic starter, but at least there was some argument (top team in MLS, he has EXPERIENCE to lead us and we're in a hole).

    I seriously don't even get why it's a discussion now, much less 18 months ago. Just cuz his dad is a coach and he's a soft-spoken guy singing MLS praises?
     
  14. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Pleasanton, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's why the establishment likes him, yes. Howard, LD, and CD were all parts of the USMNT through multiple cycles, some reaching peaks that were our highest ever as a program.
     
  15. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    It's unproven that MB will actually be part of the new cycle - we'll learn a lot more in the next couple months.

    I'm as worried as the next guy about the potential for disaster but let's see how it plays out.

    ps, even with the terrible disappointment as captain in the last cycle, MB was a high-level USMNT player for an extended period of time and as (a lot of) time passes, I think he'll be remembered well.
     
  16. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    None of this has to do with playing offensively or defensively. It is about the lack of professionalism that JK complained about. The team didnt come to play.

    Also, trying to show anything with our domestic players is player selection. It was complete ignorance and arrogance that Villafana, Gonzo, and Nagbe are playing in an important game when FJ Cameron, and JJ are available. The same players that sucked that night would have sucked if they lined up defensively.

    So yes, it was player selection and attitude were why we lost. If we picked the right players and played to beat that team, we would have run them off the field.
     
  17. FormerNo10

    FormerNo10 Member

    Leipzig
    United States
    Dec 13, 2018
    Costa Rica
    nice sentiment but I do NOT have any good memories of MB
     
  18. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess you didn't see the goal in Mexico City during the last Hex, or the two goals in Columbus in 2009. Those are just a few of the more memorable things he's done. He's past it now, but he had some very good performances for the US.
     
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  19. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Had Arena watched the Mexico-Trinidad, he'd have been scared. Those kids who played us are now their A-team and look a lot better than the older generation. We actually didn't play Trinidad's "B team" but their brand new A team.

    Also, I think JK depended too much on Puli for our first two games. He wanted Puli to be Messi against Mexico and Robben against Costa Rica. It failed miserably because:

    a) Puli was just a kid;
    b) He's not the sort of player to carry a team on his shoulders.

    You have to build your team around him to maximize his power. Otherwise he's just a one-goal guy against weaker opposition.
     
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  20. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    The TnT performance wasn't "unprofessional." C'mon. It sucked but it wasn't unprofessional.

    The team we fielded was more than good enough to not give up a single goal to a team obviously looking to counter with speed against gaps in our line. We let them and paid the price for trying to play possession.

    Even if we tried to be defensive, we would have had a possession advantage. The gap in talent was that sizeable.
     
  21. yurch10

    yurch10 Member

    Feb 13, 2004
    Wouldn't leading a team to its country's biggest failure dwarf the goal to tie mexico? Does for me...

    Anyhow, it's not really about how he'll be remembered. I'm ambivalent. He's won a lot of caps, but plays in this position where he has no responsibilities according to fans (not offensive player, doesn't pass forward much, doesn't defend well). Excuses are constantly made for him bc he never looks that awful, because he doesn't really do much. Fine. Whatever.

    But again, to still be saying he should be in the squad when high end Munich players (still in good form compared to MBs last 2 years) is laughable.
     
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  22. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    It's unclear to me who is actually saying that he should start over "Munich" players other than Pragidealist. There is a lot of concern that GB's system is designed for a player who looks exactly like him though.
     
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  23. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Yes, taking the other team for granted and not showing up to play when the WC is on the line unprofessional. Arena wasnt focused on the game and as you put it "trying to prove something with MLS players". Again, unprofessional!

    We could have easily given up goals like we did at panama and that Honduras did against us. The team we fielded at panama was more than good enough to beat them by at least a couple of goals, but instead we played to not lose.
     
  24. yurch10

    yurch10 Member

    Feb 13, 2004
    Start over Munich players? What are you talking about? Guys in much better form, playing at a higher level (comparatively), who are younger, are being dropped for failing. Those three guys are more highly ranked in Germanys group of players than MB is in the US team. He continues receiving pt, they are dropped, never to be called again.

    And maybe BS posters for the most part have finally accepted what I've been selling for 4 years (Thx for catching up), but clearly the media hasn't.
     
  25. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Do we have someone actually playing in München? Where, in Unterhaching II?
     
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